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From Gilles <gil...@harfang.homelinux.org>
Subject Re: [math] Name of the new TLP
Date Mon, 25 Jan 2016 17:52:34 GMT
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:17:43 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
> Note that we can change the name Apache Commons Math to Apache 
> Commons
> Cutesy name as well as turn it into a multi-module project. You do 
> not need
> a TLP to do that.

AFAICT, the real issue is one of policy: Commons is supposed to be 
stable,
stable, stable and stable (IIUC).

And CM is far from being mature as a programming project, when 
considering
design and scope, and not only the quality of its results and 
performance
(which are both good in many cases).
So stability (as in using JDK 5 only) is not a good perspective (surely 
not
developers and probably not for users either IMO).

If this does not change, what's the point indeed?

> I see lots of email about name change but not many about why this 
> component
> would better serve its community under a TLP and/or different PMC 
> and/or
> policies.

My take on that has been shared on several occasions.

You are right quite right that the people who previously opposed the
creation of a different TLP did not say much, if anything, about what
has changed since then.
And, more importantly, what will change, as you point out here and as
I did in the other thread ("Volunteer for the new TLP PMC").


Gilles

> Where's the beef?! ;-)
>
> Gary
> On Jan 25, 2016 9:00 AM, "Ole Ersoy" <ole.ersoy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I like any name that is simple (It's also good if it has a nice ring 
>> to
>> it).  If we are hoping to incorporate more modules from other 
>> projects then
>> perhaps 'apache-davinci'?  I like 'apache-epsilon' as well.
>>
>> On 01/25/2016 05:40 AM, sebb wrote:
>>
>>> On 25 January 2016 at 09:28, luc <luc@spaceroots.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 2016-01-25 08:52, Benedikt Ritter a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I very much like the idea of taking the name of a famous 
>>>>> mathematician.
>>>>>
>>>> In which case it has to be
>>>
>>> Euclid or Pythagoras (early)
>>> or
>>> Paul Erdős - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number
>>>
>>> and everyone has heard of
>>> John Nash (Beautiful Mind)
>>>
>>> etc.
>>> In the spirit of recent discussions, how about a RNG to pick the
>>> mathematician's name for each next incarnation?
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> If it has to be some thing more descriptive: Apache Commons 
>>> HttpClient
>>>>> went
>>>>> to Apache HttpComponents. How about Apache Math Components as TLP 
>>>>> name?
>>>>>
>>>> I quite like Apache Epsilon as a non-descriptive but related name.
>>>
>>> [ducks behind bikshed]
>>>
>>> Benedikt
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Ole Ersoy <ole.ersoy@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Umbrella-ish is good.  Linear algebra, genetic algorithms, neural
>>>>>> networks, clustering, monte carlo, simplex...These need an 
>>>>>> umbrella.
>>>>>> Some
>>>>>> of the other Apache projects that do math may be interested in 
>>>>>> moving
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> piece under the Apache Math umbrella.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I like to see each in a separate repository dedicated

>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> subject, along with the corresponding documentation, etc  So:
>>>>>> apache-math (Central repository describing the project as a 
>>>>>> whole with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> documentation that cuts across modules)
>>>>>> apache-math-linear-real
>>>>>> apache-math-linear-field
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-genetic
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-simplex
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And hopefully:
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-integer
>>>>>> apache-math-optimization-mixed
>>>>>> And more..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Ole
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/24/2016 04:41 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Gilles 
>>>>>> <gilles@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just plain and simple "Apache Math" maybe?
>>>>>>>> Or is it taken already?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not taken; but I thought it was too broad-sounding and
in 
>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> umbrella-ish.  There are other ASF projects that do 
>>>>>>> math-relates
>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think adding "components" makes it look more like a library of

>>>>>>> base
>>>>>>> components that other math-related projects can use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:46:17 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/24/16 2:16 PM, James Carman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I guess it depends on the scope of what the new TLP
is going 
>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is slightly jumping the gun, as we do have the

>>>>>>>>>> opportunity in
>>>>>>>>> forming the new TLP to revisit the initial goals of [math];

>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>> suspect that initially at least we will mostly continue
to be 
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> general-purpose Java math library, trying to provide

>>>>>>>>> IP-clean,
>>>>>>>>> easily integrated, standard algorithm-based solutions
to 
>>>>>>>>> common math
>>>>>>>>> programming problems.  We have grown to the point where
we 
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> almost certainly break the distribution up into separate
>>>>>>>>> "components."  No umbrella, but likely multiple release

>>>>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>>>>> Similar in some ways to what happened with [http], which
is 
>>>>>>>>> why I
>>>>>>>>> suggested the same approach to naming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding picking a mathematician for the name, I don't
much 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> that idea as whoever you choose, you end up loading some
math 
>>>>>>>>> area
>>>>>>>>> and / or cultural bias into the name.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Umbrella projects aren't that popular these days, from
what I
>>>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe an homage to a famous mathematician? Apache
Newton? 
>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Euler?
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Euclid?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 4:08 PM Phil Steitz 
>>>>>>>>>> <phil.steitz@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We need to agree on a name.  My own preference
is for a 
>>>>>>>>>>> boring,
>>>>>>>>>>> descriptive name, but I am manifestly not a marketing
guy, 
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>>>>> be offended if others want to be more creative.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> MathComponents
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> I would be happy with either Math Components or Math.
>>>> Also I do favor fancy acronyms that read exactly as well known
>>>> names (23 years ago, the name of my first mathematics library was
>>>> an acronym that read "Cantor"), it is probably not a good idea for
>>>> this new TLP.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, the project will most probably be de facto an 
>>>> umbrella
>>>> project as modularizing it seems in the current mood.
>>>>
>>>> best regards,
>>>> Luc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hearkens back to HttpComponents, which has worked pretty well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>
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