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From Phil Steitz <>
Subject Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
Date Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:34:47 GMT
Thanks, Dave.

Instructions below look good enough to me for the VOTE.  Will kick that off later today.


> On Oct 29, 2015, at 5:56 AM, Dave Brosius <> wrote:
> git clone
> git checkout gh-pages
> if you like, I already have a fork on github of it, I can merge gh-pages into master,
and delete the gh-pages branch, and then the repo will be obviously just a one branch project.
>> On 10/28/2015 08:19 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> I am not seeing any -1s on this, so I would like to proceed with a
>> VOTE to accept the code and start the IP clearance process.  For
>> that I need a definitive snapshot of somewhere that I can point to
>> for the VOTE and clearance docs.  My git-foo is pretty limited.  Can
>> someone suggest a stable URL that we can use to identify the code
>> that we will be accepting, should the VOTE pass?
>> Thanks!
>> Phil
>>> On 10/25/15 12:25 PM, dbrosIus wrote:
>>> +1 and git please
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Phil Steitz <>
>>> Date: 10/25/2015  3:15 PM  (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: Commons Developers List <>
>>> Subject: Re: Proposed Contribution to Apache Commons,
>>>> On 10/2/15 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>> Well, a champion can volunteer to shepherd this through our incubator I
>>>> suppose,
>>> OK, I will volunteer to do this.  I propose that we start this as a
>>> Commons Sandbox project.  To do that, we need a VOTE to accept the
>>> code, a software grant and the IP clearance form [1] submitted to
>>> the Incubator PMC.  We can use either git or svn for the new sandbox
>>> repo.
>>> Any objections?  Any preference for git or svn?
>>> Phil
>>> [1]
>>>>   like CommonsRDF, which seems pretty inactive ATM. There is also
>>>> the issue of "donate and forget" vs. staying plugged in the community.
>>>> I just do not have the extra FOSS cycles to dig into the code ATM to see
>>>> what's under the hood.
>>>> Gary
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Phil Steitz <>
>>>>>> On 10/2/15 11:46 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>>>> I do not have time to dig into this one ATM but I'd like to give
my 2c.
>>>>>> Does this project introduce a new RE-like language or is it an API
>>>>> wrapper
>>>>>> for REs? It sounds like it is both.
>>>>> It looks to me like what it says it is, which is an alternative to
>>>>> REs, which IMO is a nice idea.  Less "pattern matching language" and
>>>>> more objects expressing matching intent.  End result is less
>>>>> developer thought required to accomplish a common task.  Seems to
>>>>> fit nicely in Commons to me.
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>> A project like this I could see in Commons if the project was split
>>>>> an
>>>>>> API module and modules for different pattern matching languages,
>>>>> the
>>>>>> standard Java RE would be the reference example. Naomi (I love the
>>>>>> BTW, someones wife or daughter?) would be another implementation
>>>>>> With both under its belt, the project would be on fairly solid footing
>>>>>> (granted I do not know Naomi). You could even imaging implementations
>>>>> that
>>>>>> would accept a JXPath or a SQL WHERE clause.
>>>>>> If the project is only meant to introduce a new RE-like language,
then a
>>>>>> TLP would be probably more appropriate.
>>>>>> 2c,
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Henri Yandell <>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Phil Steitz <>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 9/29/15 3:55 PM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Norman,
>>>>>>>>> Hello and welcome to Apache Commons.
>>>>>>>>> It's not clear to me why Naomi is better than regular
>>>>>>>> Pointing
>>>>>>>>> to Javadocs is not the best way to get traction.
>>>>>>>>> Your project would be better served by having some documentation
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> front page with an example driven tutorial.
>>>>>>>>> Is Naomi faster than REs?
>>>>>>>>> What can I do in Naomi that REs can't do? And vice-versa.
>>>>>>>>> Examples of this on your front page would help you at
least get folks
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> consider learning a brand new way of doing things...
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>> The code in SimpleExamples starts to get to this.  Looks
>>>>>>>> and powerful.  Either here or on the github readme you should
take a
>>>>>>>> stab at explaining a little more how hard problems using
regex get
>>>>>>>> easier with naomi, illustrated with some simple examples.
>>>>>>>> maybe with help from community members here, you can develop
>>>>>>>> overview / getting started docs that help people get into
the code.
>>>>>>> +1.
>>>>>>> Reading SimpleExamples, my summary would be a boilerplate description
>>>>>>> "It replaces the arcane regular expression language with an API".
>>>>>>> reminds me of command line argument parsers. Perl had/has a great
>>>>> regular
>>>>>>> expression like command line argument parser, but it was cryptic
and you
>>>>>>> either loved it or hated it. Then along came Commons CLI, args4j
and all
>>>>>>> the others, providing a more OO/procedural API instead of its
own mini
>>>>>>> language. Not as 'powerful' (in that you had to type more), but
>>>>> (in
>>>>>>> that you didn't have to learn a new lingo and didn't have to
>>>>>>> multiple languages inside one context (a source file)).
>>>>>>> I definitely need that user manual. It's hard, with a brain trained
>>>>>>> regular expressions, to read 'Pattern greek3=new
>>>>> CharSequencePattern("?")'
>>>>>>> and realize (I think) that it means a literal ? character. It's
also the
>>>>>>> primary way it'll be successful. You need that educational path
>>>>>>> explains what a ExplicitCharClass is for, rather than randomly
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> javadoc :)
>>>>>>> There'll also be much debate to be had I suspect. Is "a-e" too
>>>>>>> compared to "abcde" or "a","e". Which parts of regex are worth
>>>>> supporting,
>>>>>>> vs not. Can I mix bits of regexp with bits of Naomi?   new
>>>>>>> ExplicitCharClass("a-eg-p").
>>>>>>> Random.... I'd like the idea of varargs for automatic and'ing.
>>>>>>> new ExplicitCharClass("a-p", "!f")   [and is a not char class
>>>>>>> complex?].
>>>>>>> Continuing on my summary, as I peruse the code a little more,
I'd go
>>>>> with:
>>>>>>> "Build a regular expression via an API, not an arcane language
of its
>>>>> own".
>>>>>>> I'd love to see that grow to:
>>>>>>> "Express regular expressions as objects, or mix and match objects
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> arcane mini language we all love or loathe".
>>>>>>> Hen
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