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From Phil Steitz <phil.ste...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Math] Supported Java versions
Date Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:52:12 GMT
On 7/12/14, 9:33 AM, Gilles wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 06:54:46 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> On 7/12/14, 6:19 AM, Gilles wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:52:22 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>> On 6/20/14, 9:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote:
>>>>> On 06/20/2014 05:30 PM, Gilles wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 16:57:41 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote:
>>>>>>> On 20 Jun 2014 16:37, "Gilles" <gilles@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 16:18:08 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Java 5 is already eol. Anybody still using it is certainly
in
>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>> mode thus adding now a feature that is available in java
6
>>>>>>>>> does not
>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> any sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This a strong statement in a forum where it has _always_
been
>>>>>>>> indicated that no post-Java-5 feature could be used.
>>>>>>> These two are completely different things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not using more recent java features was done in order to still
>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>> users that are stuck with java 5 but want/have to use commons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duplicating java 6 features in 2014 is pointless. What is the
>>>>>>> expected
>>>>>>> userbase of this feature?
>>>>>> Commons Math itself. And this was the real purpose of
>>>>>> duplicating Java 6:
>>>>>> no user ever asked for those methods in MathArrays. They were
>>>>>> implemented
>>>>>> for the sole reason that CM could not contain calls to methods
>>>>>> not yet
>>>>>> available in Java 5. [See the "pom.xml" of Commons Math.]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New users will certainly have adopted more recent
>>>>>>> versions of java and anybody still using java 5 and having a
>>>>>>> need for
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> will hopefully have implemented it already in his own codebase.
>>>>>> This is completely unrelated to the issue.
>>>>> Looking at the original JIRA issue (MATH-1130) it was not clear
>>>>> that
>>>>> this is actually related to MATH-1120 and sounded like a user
>>>>> request to
>>>>> support this functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> As this functionality is used by Commons Math itself the
>>>>> inclusion is of
>>>>> course ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the supported versions:
>>>>>
>>>>>  * for the 3.x branch I would stick with java 5
>>>>>  * for the new 4.x branch I would at least switch to java 7
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>> Phil
>>>
>>> Do we all agree?
>>>
>>> Why not go all the way and switching to Java 8? Any downside?
>>
>> Are the Java 8 features that we actually need for 4.x?  I am not
>> aware of any.  Making the javadoc thingy happy should not force a
>> dependency on Java 8.
>
> It's to avoid being stuck with an inferred promise that we'll support
> version 7 as long as possible (and even longer). :-)
> So rather start with the latest and brightest...

But that cuts out a big swath of users who are still using Java 7.  
>
> There is also the political objective to bring more developers.
> New language features could help with that goal; forbidding the new
> features could hurt it.

What exactly are the 8 \ 7 features your are referring to?  If you
look back at our experience actually developing [math], the last
really useful stuff came in 6 \ 5.  If I am missing something, OK
tell me what it is;  but if not, I think its better to set the
minimum required jdk to the minimum that does not constrain us. 
Note that that does *not* mean developers can't develop, test and
build on 8, 9, ... .  The key factor in deciding minimum JDK level
is what is really useful / needed in the library.

Phil
>
> Gilles
>
>
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