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From Phil Steitz <phil.ste...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Commons Weaver 1.0 based on RC3
Date Mon, 17 Mar 2014 13:52:09 GMT
On 3/15/14, 12:18 AM, Matt Benson wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Niall Pemberton
> <niall.pemberton@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Matt Benson <gudnabrsam@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Benedikt Ritter <britter@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 2014-03-12 13:37 GMT+01:00 Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> [X] -1 I oppose this release because...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry to say but it is not possible to tell how to use this
>>>> components
>>>>> by looking at the site.
>>>>>
>>>>> The text descriptions could not be more terse and is devoid of
>>> examples.
>>>>> Finding the modules requires drilling down the site. The modules AND
>>>>> examples should be listed in the main menu. Preferably a user docs
>>> page
>>>>> should exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drilling down to the privilizer example source xref [1] is not helpful
>>>>> since the code has no comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> There appears to be a hierarchy of modules which is only discoverable
>>> by
>>>>> drilling down the whole site. For example, on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> https://people.apache.org/~mbenson/commons-weaver-1.0-rc3/commons-weaver-processor/index.html
>>>>> there are two modules with the exact same kind of description and no
>>>> guide
>>>>> lines for when to use which one, unless you guess by the name of
>>> course
>>>> ;)
>>>>> No good enough IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> The page starts with "This module provides the
>>>>> org.apache.commons:commons-weaver artifact." which are Maven concepts
>>>>> related to building Weaver itself or installing it for use in your
>>>>> IDE/editor. This shows to me that the docs need a "Building" and
>>>>> "Installing" section like some other sites have which tell you how to
>>> do
>>>>> just that, building and installing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not see how this component can be released without telling folks
>>> how
>>>>> to use it!
>>>>>
>>>> We're still voting on source code here. The site is only a nice to have
>>>> imho. If you find yourself unable to verify the release (because you can
>>>> not tell how to use the component), from my PoV a -0 would be
>>> appropriate.
>>>> But casting a veto because the website is incomplete doesn't fit into
>>> the
>>>> "release early, release often" credo we have agreed upon.
>>>
>>> Bear in mind, releases cannot be vetoed. ;)
>>
>>  Doesn't seem like Gary is asking for much. Is it not possible to improve
>> the website and achieve a consensus?
>>
>> Of course it is possible, but it's not necessarily quick or "not much."
> One thing Gary has asked for is a "building" section. There is such a page
> linked from the root of [weaver]'s site. He has asked for installation
> instructions, which--lo and behold--are visible under the heading
> "Integration" on the front page of the [weaver] site. I admit to having let
> his request for a FAQ about the relationship between [weaver] and
> BCEL/ASM/Javassist slip my mind. I have expressed full willingness to
> improve the site, but since writing technical documentation is quite
> apparently a skill beyond my grasp, I'd love a little help or at least
> patience in that regard. Apache is supposed to be about community, but it's
> also supposed to be about doocracy. I've been fetching rocks on this
> project for a _year_ now in my ever-diminishing spare time, to the
> detriment of other ASF TLPs that could have been using it. When is the last
> time we've released a new Commons component? How many committers have we
> lost over the years due to our excessive navel-gazing? Come to that, where
> have you been for the past year or so, Niall? I have tried to retain a
> positive outlook for this community, but like so many others my patience is
> wearing thin. Please try to contain your collective shock when you don't
> see me bringing anything else new to Commons.
>
> FWIW, my +1 to the release. I'll keep the vote open until I get another
> binding +1 or I somehow manage to blindly stumble onto what it is people
> are looking for.

Sorry I missed the vote on this.  Mine would have been +1 assuming
my build / contents checks succeeded.  I think it is important that
we listen to what Matt is telling us here.  Commons began as a place
for ASF projects to share common code.  The code and committers from
other ASF projects have always been very important to us.  We need
to make it as easy as possible for common code to be developed and
released here.  Rather than quibbling over site content and other
nits, those with available cycles should work on understanding the
code.  If the code is inscrutable, ask questions, write test cases,
etc.  If you don't have time to do that, great, then trust your
fellow committers and just verify build and tarball contents.   I
agree with Benedikt that good user documentation on the web site is
"nice to have" and should not be tied to the code release.  If you
look back in history or even at the current component sites, this
has always been the case.  We have never insisted on good or
complete documentation as a requirement for Commons releases. Even
good javadoc has never been a release requirement, and that is as it
should be - better to catch the reuse train early and accept patches
for the documentation incrementally.

Once again, sorry that I missed this vote and did not chime in
earlier on this.

Phil
>
> Matt
>
>
>> Niall
>>
>>
>>
>>>  Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>> The website can
>>>> always be tweaked and republished.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, I'll not have the time until friday to review this RC
>>>> myself :o)
>>>>
>>>> Benedikt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> https://people.apache.org/~mbenson/commons-weaver-1.0-rc3/commons-weaver-modules-parent/commons-weaver-normalizer-parent/commons-weaver-normalizer-example/xref/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Matt Benson <mbenson@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Apache Commons Weaver 1.0 RC3 is available for review at:
>>>>>>   https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/commons/weaver/ (r4624).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maven artifacts are at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachecommons-1018/
>>>>>>  .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tested with Oracle JDKs 6, 7 and 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Subversion tag is:
>>>>>>
>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/proper/weaver/tags/1.0_RC3/
>>>>>>  (r1576397).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Site:
>>>>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~mbenson/commons-weaver-1.0-rc3/index.html
>>>>>> RAT Report:
>>>>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~mbenson/commons-weaver-1.0-rc3/rat-report.html
>>>>>> Keys: https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/commons/KEYS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changes since RC2:
>>>>>>  - Configured project to run a single all-inclusive RAT report
>>>>>>  - Added missing license headers
>>>>>>  - Included issueManagement in POM (and thus in generated site)
>>>>>>  - Documented resulting need for expanded permgen when generating
>>> site
>>>>>> Changes since RC1:
>>>>>>  - Removed -dist suffix from distribution files
>>>>>>  - Added release notes to binary distribution
>>>>>>  - Included project-specific LICENSE.txt and NOTICE.txt in jar
>>>> artifacts
>>>>>>  - Restricted checkstyle to run only for relevant modules
>>>>>>  - Fixed remaining checkstyle errors
>>>>>>  - Improved (somewhat) overview documentation
>>>>>>  - Removed license header from release notes
>>>>>>  - Added FindBugs and PMD reporting
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please review the release candidate and vote.
>>>>>>   This vote will close no sooner that 72 hours from now, i.e. after
>>>>> 0000UTC
>>>>>> 15-March 2014
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   [ ] +1 Release these artifacts
>>>>>>   [ ] +0 OK, but...
>>>>>>   [ ] -0 OK, but really should fix...
>>>>>>   [ ] -1 I oppose this release because...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition<
>>>>> http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~britter/
>>>> http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
>>>> http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
>>>> http://github.com/britter
>>>>
>>


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