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From Thomas Neidhart <>
Subject Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Date Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:09:52 GMT
On 11/11/2013 06:54 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> It sounds like the Commons Logging page should include text that refers to Log4j 2. 

I can imagine adding something like the following to the logging page:

Active development of Commons Logging has stopped, only maintenance
release for critical bugs are to be expected.

Users are encouraged to migrate to other, more widely used logging
frameworks which are under active development:

  * Log4J2
  * SLF4J
  * ...

We could also provide a migration guide for these users, which should be
pretty straight-forward (at least for slf4j I know it).


> Gary
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Christian Grobmeier <> 
> Date:11/10/2013  15:46  (GMT-05:00) 
> To: Commons Developers List <> 
> Subject: Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging? 
> On 10 Nov 2013, at 21:24, henrib wrote:
>> Would you share why ? I'm sure it would be beneficial to others 
>> (including
>> the commons logging community).
> Sorry I was short in my reply because I mentioned this a few times 
> already. Didn't find the mails, so here we go:
> As you probably know, I have an interest in logging in general.
> Commons Logging doesn't support modern logging features. If you compare 
> it to the Log4j2 API
> or to slf4j its just outdated. That said, people are already having a 
> lot of problems with their
> logging dependencies. It's definitely not nice to have commons-logging 
> in path, just because OGNL uses it.
> From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using 
> commons-logging. For me it is dead.
> And I certainly don't recommend anybody to use it.
> Ok, lets say you have an interest in fixing Commons-Logging and 
> implement modern API features.
> Why wouldn't you spend the time in Log4j2s API? It serves the same 
> purpose, just with a better API. It's already there. Log4j2 users can 
> use different logging implementations under the hood, if they like. Now 
> why should there be another logging facade which needs a *lot* of work?
> Before the small maintenance release this year there was a 5 yrs break. 
> Logging went on. Commons Logging did not. It's too late. Even if Commons 
> would put a lot of effort I doubt anybody would accept it.
> Now we probably need some logging at OGNL. Do I want that outdated, 
> irregulary maintained Commons Logging which seems to be used only at 
> Tomcat?
> No absolutely not.
> Instead I am thinking commons logging implementation should stop. We 
> will not win the fight against slf4j anymore. The only way out is 
> unbelievable big marketing effort for the log4j2 api OR a new logging 
> jsr.
> E-mail went longer than thought, sorry. Hope you understand a bit better 
> why I can't support commons-logging going into OGNL. If any more 
> questions please shout.
> Cheers
> Christian
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