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From Thomas Neidhart <>
Subject Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Date Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:34:48 GMT
On 11/10/2013 09:46 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> On 10 Nov 2013, at 21:24, henrib wrote:
>> Would you share why ? I'm sure it would be beneficial to others
>> (including
>> the commons logging community).
> Sorry I was short in my reply because I mentioned this a few times
> already. Didn't find the mails, so here we go:
> As you probably know, I have an interest in logging in general.
> Commons Logging doesn't support modern logging features. If you compare
> it to the Log4j2 API
> or to slf4j its just outdated. That said, people are already having a
> lot of problems with their
> logging dependencies. It's definitely not nice to have commons-logging
> in path, just because OGNL uses it.
> From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
> commons-logging. For me it is dead.
> And I certainly don't recommend anybody to use it.
> Ok, lets say you have an interest in fixing Commons-Logging and
> implement modern API features.
> Why wouldn't you spend the time in Log4j2s API? It serves the same
> purpose, just with a better API. It's already there. Log4j2 users can
> use different logging implementations under the hood, if they like. Now
> why should there be another logging facade which needs a *lot* of work?
> Before the small maintenance release this year there was a 5 yrs break.
> Logging went on. Commons Logging did not. It's too late. Even if Commons
> would put a lot of effort I doubt anybody would accept it.

The reason I made these small maintenance releases was simply due to the
fact that there was a critical bug which lead to various deadlock
reports by users, e.g. also on jenkins instances, which I thought was
really worth a fix let alone for the reputation of the commons project.

> Now we probably need some logging at OGNL. Do I want that outdated,
> irregulary maintained Commons Logging which seems to be used only at
> Tomcat?

Mark explained the reasons why commons logging is still used by tomcat
and I believe these are very valid, in this very specific case. The rest
of the java world is probably better off using log4j, slf4j or whatever
is currently en vogue.

> No absolutely not.
> Instead I am thinking commons logging implementation should stop. We
> will not win the fight against slf4j anymore. The only way out is
> unbelievable big marketing effort for the log4j2 api OR a new logging jsr.

I also think that commons-logging should be officially declared dead as
there are way better alternatives out there, and there is no community
behind logging anymore.


> E-mail went longer than thought, sorry. Hope you understand a bit better
> why I can't support commons-logging going into OGNL. If any more
> questions please shout.
> Cheers
> Christian
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