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From Simone Tripodi <simonetrip...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [JEXL] Jexl 2.1?
Date Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:45:40 GMT
Hi all guys,
I would like to confirm Henri Yandell's concern about the cutting
releases :( I honestly think we should speak less and practice more
the "releas early and often" karma because the sad reality is... we've
been not good on it :(
My Maven community experience let me totally astonished, we have
released the fluido-skin in ~160 commits and 1 RC, something that
would not be possible here. Of course we have issues there, but the
pragmatism and the agility are totally surprising, that's why they
have so many components/plugins/shared modules etc etc
OTOH here at commons we have commons-collections, or
commons-catastrophe like someone called in his blog: I recently
proposed a short-therm roadmap, the big mountain that appeared in
front of me simple made me feel to went away - it would have required
a year of work - in the meantime Google-Guava continues publishing
releases and we've lost users that migrated to more maintained
FWs.We've had the Generics enabled in collections for a long time -
even before that I joined as Sandbox contributor - but we've never
released because of, as Christian already explained, endless
discussions that induce people to give up.
I think we suffer the "fix X before release" and "follow the roadmap"
syndrome and we should add a little more of dynamism to improve.
oh, and btw: big +1 to Gary and James :)

Just my 0.00002 cents, yours,Simo

http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://simonetripodi.livejournal.com/
http://twitter.com/simonetripodi
http://www.99soft.org/



On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:08 PM, James Carman <james@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> Also remember that releases can't be vetoed.  Majority wins and must have 3
> +1s.  You'll have mine on a 3.x release!
> On Dec 2, 2011 2:40 PM, "Gary Gregory" <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:19 PM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2 December 2011 17:52, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > +1. to release early, release often.
>> >
>> > But I hope we don't want to break user applications.
>> >
>> > > Go for v3, seems simplest.
>> >
>> > Simpler for whom?
>> >
>>
>> Simpler for people to use the latest version with new features. Users have
>> to make a conscious decision to upgrade to a new release, there is no
>> coercion. A new release, in 2.x or 3.x carries different migration costs.
>> If the new features of a 3.x matter to me, I accept the costs. If the
>> releasing a new feature is incompatible in 2.x, I have to deal getting it
>> in a 3.x with package name changes (and any other breakage.)
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> >
>> > We could always release major versions with package and Maven id
>> > changes, and then compatibility issues would be irrelevant.
>> >
>> > However, would most end users want that?
>> > (JDBC versions, anyone?)
>> >
>> > Assuming that there are many more users of the code than there are
>> > developers, then I think the developers owe it to the users not to
>> > break things unnecessarily.
>> > Particularly for projects such as Commons, which are generally only a
>> > small part of a larger application.
>> > Projects like Tomcat or JMeter which are largely self-contained can
>> > afford to make many more internal changes, but they still need to
>> > ensure upwards compatibility as far as possible.
>> >
>> > > If someone really wants fixes in 2.x, then you release from the branch.
>> >
>> > The reason I started on this was to see if we could tweak the code
>> > sufficiently to avoid having to do a major version release.
>> > I think we are nearly there.
>> >
>> > So yes, more work for the developers, but a lot less hassle for most end
>> > users.
>> >
>> > > Gary
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:27 PM, henrib <henrib@apache.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I've done the same thing and been pushing JEXL snapshots for sometime
>> to
>> > >> avoid the unpleasant moment, so unpleasant that I've procrastinated
>> > enough
>> > >> to now have to consider alternatives.
>> > >> I find disturbing that committers fear to release and that goodwill
to
>> > >> share
>> > >> features and code is killed by the process that should help publish
>> > them -
>> > >> not oppose them!
>> > >>
>> > >> I agree that a "release early, release often" scheme would help but
>> > I've no
>> > >> idea how to achieve this without a "release faster" mean.
>> > >>
>> > >> However, I ultimately suspect that the vested interest of some in
>> > promoting
>> > >> a hard, difficult and lengthy process relates to how their bills get
>> > payed
>> > >> and by whom; there is a huge difference in those of us doing this as
a
>> > >> "goodwill hobby" - so to speak - because we feel it is good ethics
to
>> > >> contribute back and those who make a living from it. Can't blame them
>> > for
>> > >> making sure their fees stay high by ensuring "hobbyists" don't get
too
>> > >> efficient! (just kidding :-))
>> > >>
>> > >> Cheers,
>> > >> Henrib
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> View this message in context:
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://apache-commons.680414.n4.nabble.com/JEXL-Jexl-2-1-tp4147180p4148135.html
>> > >> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> > >>
>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> > > JUnit in Action, 2nd Ed: <http://goog_1249600977>http://bit.ly/ECvg0
>> > > Spring Batch in Action: <http://s.apache.org/HOq>http://bit.ly/bqpbCK
>> > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> JUnit in Action, 2nd Ed: <http://goog_1249600977>http://bit.ly/ECvg0
>> Spring Batch in Action: <http://s.apache.org/HOq>http://bit.ly/bqpbCK
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>

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