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From Phil Steitz <phil.ste...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [POOL2][PROPOSAL] releasing commons-pool2-2.0-beta1
Date Thu, 05 May 2011 18:24:44 GMT
On 5/5/11 10:12 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Phil Steitz <phil.steitz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/5/11 9:20 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>> I would like to propose an aggressive release schedule:
>>>
>>> - Push 2.0 out as a generified version of 1.5 ASAP and add/remove/fiddle
>>> nothing else. "Just give me the generics P L E A S E!" :) Change
>> deprecated
>>> documentation from "Will be removed in 2.0" to "Will be removed in 3.0".
>> Why such a rush to just get generics?
>>
> It's been forever and I'm tired of looking type casts and other hacks. Why
> NOT is the better question. It's there, it's done, let's take a look at it.
> Thank you Simone BTW.
>
>
>> Honestly, this makes no sense
>> to me.  If you really want a type-safe pool, it is easy enough to
>> wrap the methods that borrow and return objects.
>
> It makes a lot of sense to me to bullet proof pool call sites using
> generics.
>
> It makes even more sense to me to do it with a small step instead of a big
> one using a next gen pool release that may break apps in subtle ways.
>
> I have some subclassing/wrapping/hacking/blech already. It seems like you're
> suggesting that folks go off and create throw away work . That does not sit
> well with me when I know that enabling generics on top on 1.5 is done and it
> ready for review. It's easy and makes your life easier.
>
>
>> If we make this
>> decision, we are effectively deciding that the current pool API is
>> going to be *the* API for several years to come.
>
> But so what? It'll be supported as long as folks like us volunteer to do it
> for any given release. 

That's the problem.  We have frankly collectively had a terrible
track record keeping up with pool and dbcp bugs.  I take
accountability for that since I have been cutting the releases. 
These components are widely reused and prone to difficult bugs and
small changes can lead to disasters for production systems.  I don't
personally have the bandwidth to birth and maintain yet another
version of [pool] and there has not been sufficient help available
resolving the real bugs in prior releases to make it a wise decision
for the Commons PMC to release another version at this time.   What
I can volunteer to help with is developing a 2.0 version that we can
stand behind.  We don't have that yet.

> I say: Here is 2.0 (or 1.6 if we want to call it
> that): It's 1.5 with generics, enjoy! :) Next up, for 2.0/3.0, we're doing
> this and that, which are bigger changes with more serious implications. Keep
> the ball moving I say. Why wait for Big Bang releases?
>
>
Because we have made incompatible changes in the API.  That can only
happen in major releases.  These need to be planned and executed
carefully.  Once we fix the 2.0 API, we can move quiclky through
2.1, 2.2, etc., as long as we have volunteers to help develop and
maintain the code.  Major releases take more time to get right. 
That is natural and we have learned - repeatedly - that rushing to
push a major release out before the API is ready is a bad idea for
both us and users.

>> We may also be
>> painting ourselves into a performance corner supporting all of the
>> features in the current API.
>>
> We won't know that until we really get
>> the DBCP integration and performance testing done.
>>
> OK, we may... or we may not. I have no idea. I'm a DBCP user too but I don't
> want to wait for some complex release train (a la Eclipse).

I am also a DBCP user and the last thing I want is a release that
kills performance and/or introduces nasty bugs - both of which can
be / have been the product of bad [pool] releases.

Phil
> Gary
>
>
>> Phil
>>
>>> - Next is 3.0: This is what we had meant 2.0 to be. Do all the other
>> clean
>>> ups, re-architecting, fiddling, removing of deprecation, refactoring, and
>> so
>>> on.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Simone Tripodi <
>> simonetripodi@apache.org>wrote:
>>>> Hi all guys,
>>>> some of us (me included :P) are waiting for pool with generics; now
>>>> that the migration has been done, WDYT about releasing a beta1
>>>> release?
>>>> It is basically the latest pool-1.5.X API, but with generics, at least
>>>> we can start playing with it.
>>>> Thoughts? Just let me know, I can take care of it!
>>>> Have a nice day,
>>>> Simo
>>>>
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>>
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>>>>
>>
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>>
>


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