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From Phil Steitz <>
Subject Re: Trademakrs and logos. WAS beanutils commit msg...
Date Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:45:02 GMT

On Mar 13, 2011, at 1:24 AM, Mark Thomas <> wrote:

> On 12/03/2011 18:03, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> On 3/12/11 10:41 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:
>>> On 12/03/2011 15:52, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>> On 3/12/11 8:45 AM, sebb wrote:
>>>>> On 12 March 2011 04:20, Phil Steitz <> wrote:
>>>>>> I thought we had agreed that we are not going to do this, i.e.,
>>>>>> maintain that commons-foo is *not* an ASF trademark.  Otherwise,
>>>>>> need to be prepared to defend all of these "trademarks" which makes
>>>>>> no sense to me personally.
>>>>> I thought you just meant that we should not claim "Commons" as a
>>>>> trademark, rather than not claiming any "Commons YYY" names as marks.
>>>>> However whatever happens re Commons, we still need to claim trademark
>>>>> on Apache at the bottom of our pages (so most of the work was needed
>>>>> anyway).
>>>>> I don't really mind what is decided, so long as it is agreed with @Trademarks.
>>>> OK.  I just asked on board@.  They may toss it over to trademarks,
>>>> but I personally see this as first a Commons decision, which the
>>>> Board could require us to change.
>>>> Please anyone else chime in with different opinions.  I want to make
>>>> sure I am not misrepresenting our views.
>>> I think we would have difficulty claiming "Commons" as a trademark.
>>> I think we should be claiming/protecting:
>>> - Apache Commons
>>> - Apache Commons Foo
>>> - Commons Foo
>> Why, exactly?
> Because I don't want BigCorp to be able to create a product called
> "Apache Commons Math". If we don't protect our marks then we have no way
> of stopping abuse.

Do you honestly think that the probability of that is distinguishable from 0 as a double?
 Seriously, I have a hard time envisioning this, and an even harder time convincing myself
that we should be spending precious volunteer hours making changes throughout the commons
sites to mitigate this risk.  Especially when these changes may give the wrong impression
to some users / potential volunteers.  (I know the latter is a minority view, as may be the

>> And why do we think we *can* claim, for example, "Commons Email?"
> Because there no reason that we can't. Whilst those individual words
> would be hard to trademark, "Commons Email" and "Apache Commons Email"
> should not present a problem.
> Mark
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