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From Dennis Lundberg <>
Subject Re: [IO] Planning IO 1.4 release
Date Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:11:40 GMT
sebb wrote:
> On 10/01/2008, Niall Pemberton <> wrote:
>> On Jan 10, 2008 4:32 PM, sebb <> wrote:
>>> On 10/01/2008, Stephen Colebourne <> wrote:
>>>> ---- Original Message ----
>>>> From: Jochen Wiedmann <>
>>>>> On 10/01/2008, Stephen Colebourne <>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> [..]
>>>>>> +1 to this sentiment. I completely reject the notion of generating
>>>>  NOTICE.txt. That is our responsibility here in commons.
>>>>> And I reject the attitude to discard a solution *once and forever*,
>>>>> simply because there is an aspect in the *current* implementation that
>>>>> you dislike.
>>> My position is that no matter how good the plugin is, the NOTICE file
>>> needs to be generated manually in order to ensure proper oversight. It
>>> seems to me that it should be possible to review the NOTICE file for
>>> compliance without having to generate it.
>> Oversight is the PMC reviewing and voting on the release artifacts and
>> checking the LICENSE and NOTICE files - even if theres a good
>> hand-written copy in svn it makes no difference since its what we put
>> out in our distros.
> OK, point taken.
>> Additionally hand written ones can be just as bad
>> or worse. If a component has the "standard" flavour that most of our
>> components have why does that make you feel confident? For all you
>> know someones just copied another and has given no thought to what it
>> should contain. At least with the generated one it tries to name all
>> dependencies, the author and license - if that doesn't work well then
>> putting in a custom "hand written" one takes precedence over the
>> generated one. So it seems to me this plugin is better IF the
>> dependencies information is up to date.
> AIUI, the NOTICE file is not about dependencies, it is about the
> artefacts that are actually included in the distribution.
> In the case of Commons, dependencies are normally not included in the
> distribution, and should therefore not be included in NOTICE.

Now I better understand why you feel the way you do about this.

The approach that mrrp takes is to inform about software that is either 
included *or* used by the current project. So it behaves differently 
than you expect it to. I don't have much insight into the legal stuff 
surrounding these files, but mrrp is used by lots of ASF project. So I 
suspect that the generated NOTICE files comply with ASF policy.

> Indeed, I suspect that most (possibly all) Commons distributions need
> the same NOTICE file - the only difference being the initial copyright
> year.
> Or have I missed something here?
>> Niall
>>>> This is what I also said, and got snipped:
>>>> "Whether this affects a particular plugin or not is of non relevance to
>>>>  me."
>>>> ie. I personally have no idea what the rest of the plugin does, its not of
great interest to me. My point is specific to NOTICE.txt. To a lesser degree it also affects
LICENSE.txt, which should also be in svn IMO.
>>>> Stephen
>>>>> The value of the mrr plugin (in the light of the Apache policies) is
>>>>> that it provides the technical solution for a non-trivial task: To
>>>>> ensure that artifacts contain the required files. Having been the
>>>>> person who was forced to implement a comparable solution in the past
>>>>> for a several projects and for several artifacts separately, I am very
>>>>> happy if someone provides a solution that does exactly that and will
>>>>> take care for possible other artifacts in the future. The question,
>>>>> how and from where the NOTICE.txt file is obtained is a minor problem,
>>>>> which can easily be achieved, in the worst case by subclassing the
>>>>> plugin. So, what's the reason to be so gruff?
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Dennis Lundberg

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