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From Martin Cooper <>
Subject Re: Idea: combine JCL 2.0 and UGLI in Logging Services' CL2
Date Sat, 26 Mar 2005 19:19:56 GMT
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:03:28 +0100, Remy Maucherat
<> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:57:02 +0100, Ceki Gülcü <> wrote:
> >
> > On 2005-03-24 23:50:45,  Remy Maucherat said,
> >
> > It doesn't make any sense for to adopt java.util.logging
> > API. As for the claim that java.util.logging is the only realistic
> > standard forward, it should be clear to any moderately astute observer
> > that bundling an API with the JDK is not enough to create a standard.
> Heard of the JCP and its standards ? I also heard Apache was an active
> contributor to it, and kinda influential too, these days.
> > Remy, there is more to logging than what meets your eye as a Tomcat
> > developer. I am confident that by continuing to carefully listen to
> > your (Tomcat) constituency, you will eventually change your mind.
> This is sticking your head in the sand ...
> The only thing logical is that there's actually no value in the API
> log4j provides to applications: most of them will only use a
> featureset equivalent to what commons-logging exposes (as proven by
> the fact that nearly everyone uses commons-logging at the moment). I

This is a puzzling comment to me. What is the basis of the statement
that "nearly everyone" uses Commons Logging? No project that I have
ever worked on (outside the ASF) has ever used Commons Logging. They
have all used Log4j because of its feature set. I really don't think
I'm a part of a small minority here either.

Martin Cooper

> think your decision of not supporting java.util.logging at any cost is
> clearly the root of all the gripes.
> My plan for JULI is to:
> - write LogManagers tuned to a variety of containers (starting with
> Tomcat, and maybe JBoss later)
> - port log4j appenders as java.util.logging handlers (this should be quite easy)
> Is there any pace for this in the logging project, or should I seek
> another home ? The project is definitely much smaller than a standard
> project, more like a commons component.
> > In other words, don't listen to what LS people have to say, only
> > listen to what Tomcat users say.
> The idea is that I listened to no one in this case, and made up my own
> completely independent decision. My current Tomcat implementation of a
> LogManager seems to work very well.
> Who are "LS people" anyway ?
> --
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Rémy Maucherat
> Developer & Consultant
> JBoss Group (Europe) SàRL
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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