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From Henri Yandell <>
Subject Re: [all] Math needs a "user" & a "dev" email list.
Date Sun, 15 Aug 2004 00:43:16 GMT

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Michael McGrady wrote:

> Kim van der Linde wrote:
> >--- Martin Cooper <> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>It seems that you are missing the single most
> >>important facet of Jakarta Commons here - community.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Commons is one community,
> >>
> >>
> >
> >A community from whom? Whom are in it? Only hard-core
> >developers? Or the developers and users at large?
> >Apparently, I have a different idea about e-mail lists
> >than most here. So be it.

Before people's heckles get raised etc, it's probably best to let you know
why there are differing opinions to your (quite acceptable) view.

Commons is a project in which a single community creates many smaller
components, gaining from the cross-pollination from different segments of
the community.

I don't think there's a single developer who works on every part
(ignoring changes to the build-system/site etc), so we're all viewing
slices of the community. For example, although I like to get involved with
lots of Commons, [jelly] is something I get a lot of noise from and don't

Now, this idea of a community with internal cross-pollination has a
problem. Mailing lists aren't really able to handle the cross-pollination,
especially as it gets larger. I fully believe that as Commons Math grows
in user community, we will increasingly see that it does not intersect
with the Commons community as much as other components and we'll consider
moving it out, but right now [math] has not even released at 1.0 and it
doesn't have that community yet.

It might be a trite, oft-said thing of open-source, but the best way to
lessen the noise for [math] is actually to help it outgrow Commons :) Or
more likely with [math] (as there will always be a desire for a simple
Math.jar), help it foster other similar style components.

Anyway, hopefully that will explain the community a bit better and why
[math] has to climb a steep gradient to follow HttpClient out of


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