Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> I would suggest that your argument is more for Apache Math than for a new
> mailing list. (Note Apache Math, not Jakarta Math)
>
> For me, [math] goes beyond the role of a simple library of common code.
Not that far, IMHO. Most of what is there now is basic, widely useful
utility code.
> Instead it presents a wealth of detailed mathematical code. The user of the
> library needs some mathematical knowledge to get the best from the library.
Not very much. Default impls, etc. are designed to make it simple to do
simple things. If this is not true, we have not done a good job designing
and documenting the code.
> Related to this is that the developers and advisors will be drawn from a
> different (less java/programmer centric position).
I respectfully disagree here. We do need some targeted help with
numerics, but what we really need is Java developers with math proficiency
and need (for math functionality).
>
> Secondly, there is no reason why [math] could not be implemented in C, C# or
> another language as far as I can see. (There is no general rule here, [lang]
> and [collections] are java focussed, but [codec] could be multilanguage.
I disagree. I see [math] as very Javafocussed. The whole point of
[math] is to provide ASFlicensed pure Java implementations of basic math
functionality.
>
> One option that could be considered in to use the package name
> org.apache.math for your 1.0 release even if you are still hosted in
> commons. It avoids problems later.
I would prefer to keep commons in the package name. Later, if we toss out
the current PROOPOSAL
(http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/math/proposal.html) and try to become
an "Apache math library" a new (multilanguage) project could be started
in the incubator, using some commonsmath components for Java
implementations. Even then, I would see commonsmath as a valuable
commons component.
>
> So, consider me 0 to a commonsmathuser at the moment.
>
> Stephen
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Mark R. Diggory" <mdiggory@latte.harvard.edu>
>
>>Do you get my argument though?
I get the argument, but I disagree with it. As Brent points out below,
there are plenty of math forums out there for general discussion of
algorithms and other math topics. I see no reason for Apache to host yet
another one of these. I don't know what you mean by "nondeveloper" users,
since our users are by definition Java developers. Discussion here should
focus on issues related to the [math] code base. From time to time, this
discussion will naturally include some math content. Since we are trying
to stick to established algorithms and basic functionality, I would
actually see it as a red flag if we ventured off into extended
mathematical discussions.
For the reasons that I mentioned above, I do not want [math] to be split
out from jc. I will cut a RC for 1.0 this weekend and I would prefer that
we focus on getting the release out rather than how the user list works at
this time.
Phil
>>
>>I'm suggesting that creating the new list will help promote maths
>>'nondeveloper' user base who are interested in algorithms and stability
>>(not because the load is too high). Individuals who are not interested
>>in usage of other commons components per se. Individuals like Kim or
>>David (or anyone from the jama or colt lists), who may not necessarily
>>be developing Apache code, but could supply excellent discussion on the
>>subject area. It would really help to promote the project and attract a
>>many individuals who are knowledgeable in the field of mathematics, thus
>>offering expert feedback to help improve the product. A math library is
>>a much different beast than a collections api, discovery or bean
>>utilities; certain standards are expected. I want a list where such
>>things can be discussed without risking being bothersome to the commons
>>developer/user lists with overly abstract discussion on mathematics and
>>not overwhelming such math users with discussion from other commons
>>subgroups.
>>
>>I think providing a user friendly environment is important here, and
>>someone barking "use a filter stupid, its not our fault" is really not
>>very user friendly, ASF has the facilities and can do better.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>

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