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From David Blevins <>
Subject Re: [general] library management
Date Fri, 07 May 2004 07:35:18 GMT
On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 03:55:38PM +1200, Simon Kitching wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 13:58, David Blevins wrote:
> >  But we can ensure that in an embedded environment with limited
> >  space, they get more of it than we do.

> Even systems 10 years old typically have 6GByte hard drives, so I can't
> see why the difference between a 300Kbyte collections jar and an
> 800Kbyte collections jar would worry the end user overly. 

I think we have differing opinions of embedded environments.

> And of course the target system first needs to install the JDK
> containing many many megabytes worth of library files that are not going
> to be used (eg swing).

As you mention below, embedded environments typcially use j2me.

> Could you please explain why the disk-space taken by commons libraries
> is so important to the Geronimo project? Are you intending to run
> Geronimo on mobile phones using j2me (which has carefully trimmed 
> libraries for this reason)?

The goal is to not rule out the possibility.  We'd like to have a kernel that can be stripped
down to just a few k, then pieces can be added with what space remains.

I know it sounds strange as most people associate J2EE with things like WSAD5 which has a
700mb footprint, but there are some neat things for J2EE in the embedded world.  One of the
OpenEJB developers, for example, got it to run on a cell phone by trimming out xerces, castor,
and a few other jars.  He started work on a mobile J2EE platform some time afterwards (

The commons libraries are great, I don't think that's ever been in question.  We're just a
little obsessed with having a kernel that is as minimal as possible.  We even purged a few
hundred classes of our own code a while back and are still looking for more things of our
own to hack off.  So this isn't any kind of attack on commons.

No offense is intented.


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