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From robert burrell donkin <>
Subject Re: [general] Book time - Pro Jakarta Commons
Date Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:32:44 GMT
AIUI struts have a community resource project on sourceforge that is  
managed by a subset of the struts committers. they link to it from the  
main struts site. we may want to consider something similar.

- robert

On 7 Mar 2004, at 18:43, Tim O'Brien wrote:

> I hear Robert's concerns loud and clear.  I think that too often  
> people expect the ASF to be the "community" around a particular  
> codebase - nothing discourages or encourages anyone from creating a  
> site that lists relevant books, articles, and documentation.
> We should not only follow the lead of Struts, but the lead of the  
> HTTPD group.  There are scores of books about the Apache web server,  
> both by individuals involved with the community and by others - I  
> don't believe you will find a page that mentions any of these books on  
> ASF sites.
> I think it is a good policy to keep ASF neutral when it comes to  
> companies, publishers, books, articles, etc.  If it doesn't  
> specifically to the code - put it somewhere else.
> Tim
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> i think that links to books and articles on jakarta products are (in  
>> general) a good thing. documentation is the weakness of most jakarta  
>> products. it's much easier to persuade a coder to submit a patch  
>> adding a feature than a technical author to submit good  
>> documentation. both books and articles serve a useful purpose in  
>> allow us to concentrate on coding.
>> i've heard the argument that people can find this information using  
>> google but it may be buried so deep in the search results as to be  
>> effectively invisible. providing links to resources serves a useful  
>> purpose by increasing the chance that the existing information will  
>> be found (whether directly or indirectly through a search engine).
>> as it becomes larger and more diverse, the ASF will necessarily need  
>> more central control over policy. it will also become more and more  
>> difficult to establish consensus on any issue. (take, for example,  
>> the fate of the jakarta newsletter when it was promoted to  
>> apache-wide status.) innovation will have to happen more and more  
>> offshore at arms length. (contrast, for example, codehaus and  
>> planetapache with jakarta.)
>> sooner or later, the ASF will probably need to create a policy  
>> related to endorsements but AFAIK they have not felt the need to do  
>> so yet and are happy to allow the community to police itself. i agree  
>> that a disclaimer would be useful to make it clear that these are not  
>> official endorsements.
>> but my main concern over tacit endorsements is that they have been  
>> the cause of personal conflicts which have been damaging to ASF  
>> development communities. IMHO disclaimers are not sufficient in this  
>> case.
>> maybe we should think hard about the struts solution (an offshore but  
>> linked community resources page).
>> - robert
>> On 6 Mar 2004, at 23:13, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>> Perhaps the non-endorsement sentiment could also be enforced by name  
>>> of
>>> the section such links would appear under. Instead of a title like
>>> "Resources", maybe "Elsewhere" or "External Resources" or ...
>>> Gary
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Michael Davey []
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 14:37
>>>> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
>>>> Subject: Re: [general] Book time - Pro Jakarta Commons
>>>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>> i think that links to new books and articles on jakarta is useful
>>> but
>>>> tacit endorsements of particular products is a little bit of a
>>> sensitive
>>>> subject.
>>>> How about a simple disclaimer.  Something like:
>>>> The following links are provided as a community resource. The
>>>> information provided does not necessarily reflect the views of the
>>>> community or any individual.  While The Apache Software Foundation  
>>>> may
>>>> officially endorse or promote some of the information linked to from
>>>> this page, a link from this page, in itself, should not be cosidered
>>>> official endorsement or promotion.  To add a link, please email
>>>> --  
>>>> Michael
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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