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From Tim O'Brien <>
Subject Re: [general] Book time - Pro Jakarta Commons
Date Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:43:41 GMT
I hear Robert's concerns loud and clear.  I think that too often people 
expect the ASF to be the "community" around a particular codebase - 
nothing discourages or encourages anyone from creating a site that lists 
relevant books, articles, and documentation.

We should not only follow the lead of Struts, but the lead of the HTTPD 
group.  There are scores of books about the Apache web server, both by 
individuals involved with the community and by others - I don't believe 
you will find a page that mentions any of these books on ASF sites.

I think it is a good policy to keep ASF neutral when it comes to 
companies, publishers, books, articles, etc.  If it doesn't specifically 
to the code - put it somewhere else.


robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i think that links to books and articles on jakarta products are (in 
> general) a good thing. documentation is the weakness of most jakarta 
> products. it's much easier to persuade a coder to submit a patch adding 
> a feature than a technical author to submit good documentation. both 
> books and articles serve a useful purpose in allow us to concentrate on 
> coding.
> i've heard the argument that people can find this information using 
> google but it may be buried so deep in the search results as to be 
> effectively invisible. providing links to resources serves a useful 
> purpose by increasing the chance that the existing information will be 
> found (whether directly or indirectly through a search engine).
> as it becomes larger and more diverse, the ASF will necessarily need 
> more central control over policy. it will also become more and more 
> difficult to establish consensus on any issue. (take, for example, the 
> fate of the jakarta newsletter when it was promoted to apache-wide 
> status.) innovation will have to happen more and more offshore at arms 
> length. (contrast, for example, codehaus and planetapache with jakarta.)
> sooner or later, the ASF will probably need to create a policy related 
> to endorsements but AFAIK they have not felt the need to do so yet and 
> are happy to allow the community to police itself. i agree that a 
> disclaimer would be useful to make it clear that these are not official 
> endorsements.
> but my main concern over tacit endorsements is that they have been the 
> cause of personal conflicts which have been damaging to ASF development 
> communities. IMHO disclaimers are not sufficient in this case.
> maybe we should think hard about the struts solution (an offshore but 
> linked community resources page).
> - robert
> On 6 Mar 2004, at 23:13, Gary Gregory wrote:
>> Perhaps the non-endorsement sentiment could also be enforced by name of
>> the section such links would appear under. Instead of a title like
>> "Resources", maybe "Elsewhere" or "External Resources" or ...
>> Gary
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Davey []
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 14:37
>>> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
>>> Subject: Re: [general] Book time - Pro Jakarta Commons
>>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>> i think that links to new books and articles on jakarta is useful
>> but
>>> tacit endorsements of particular products is a little bit of a
>> sensitive
>>> subject.
>>> How about a simple disclaimer.  Something like:
>>> The following links are provided as a community resource. The
>>> information provided does not necessarily reflect the views of the
>>> community or any individual.  While The Apache Software Foundation may
>>> officially endorse or promote some of the information linked to from
>>> this page, a link from this page, in itself, should not be cosidered
>>> official endorsement or promotion.  To add a link, please email
>>> -- 
>>> Michael
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