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From "Alex Karasulu" <aok...@bellsouth.net>
Subject [subversion] Subversion for eXtreme Refactoring ( was [HiveMind] Discuss: CVS or Subversion?)
Date Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:54:36 GMT
Hi,

Sorry to get into this one late.  Had too though since I'm one of those 
directory folks :-).

> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Good but out of date.  The subclipse web page appears to be lagging behind
> its code:
> http://subclipse.tigris.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentList?folderID=2240

I'm an eclipse user myself and really loved the integrated CVS features.  
However I had to give up on an eclipse plugin for subversion but am anxious 
to start using this new version.  I gave up on using an IDE all together for
my VCS activities because of a switch to subversion.

I use the command line svn program with cygwin and that was hard since 
the CVS plugin is so nice.  Unfortunately I still have to develop on 
Windows XP most of the time because of corporate requirements.  It's 
definitely a trade off to use the CL svn program instead of the eclipse
plugin for CVS but I think I made the right choice.  Anyway it looks 
like I can resume using eclipse for VCS ops against subversion now!

> > How often are we going to be using the unique administration
> > features in Subversion as compared to the day-to-day usage
> > features available in the CVS plugin.
> 
> One example would be every time you refactor, but as a general
> observation,
> I'll guess that the Directory project is using the unique features of
> Subversion every few days at least.


Subversion for eXtreme Refactoring
==================================

And we could not do without these features.  It's more than simple 
administration features though.  Let me see if I can explain the 
subtle changes to our development style these features have had.

Subversion affords us a more liberty.  Besides the obvious renaming and 
deleting of files and directories without the loss of history etcetera, 
we find that our development style can be geared towards XP.  These 
features are changing our outlook.  We are no longer worried about 
chewing up a repository to re-factor on a whim.  I personally have 
re-factored conservatively on CVS because there was no way to easy 
way to cleanup the consequences afterwards: loss of history and empty
directories.  But now there are no inhibitions with subversion so we're
free to be liberal with re-factoring - it's the way we code.  Bang 
something rough out and then gradually reshape it as we discover new 
things along the way.  Plus the ease of branching by just copying
directories and merging them makes large re-factoring efforts without
disrupting development a breeze.  These features have for these reasons
improved our development style and the quality of our code.  Subversion 
goes hand in hand with XP!  It's the preferred VCS for extreme 
programmers!

Going back to CVS is not an option for me after tasting development 
using subversion: it would mean going backwards.  The best description 
I can give of the having to use CVS after using subversion is when I 
have to use dial up rather than high speed internet access.  It's just
frustrating.

Subversion is the future that fits the latest paradigms in software
development.  I cannot stress the importance of the positive effects
it will have for development here at the ASF not to mention for 
infrastructure.  And ultimately the transition will have to happen 
at some point.

BTW in the past I have been a CVS consult and lived and swore by it 
since it put food on the table.  I cannot overstate how emphatic
I have been regarding CVS.  It was a religion for me.  Now after years
of using CVS, I swear by subversion and that's got to be worth 
something when said by a CVS diehard.

Regards,
Alex







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