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From David Graham <>
Subject RE: [codec] JIRA
Date Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:35:44 GMT

--- "Noel J. Bergman" <> wrote:
> Gregory,
> > here is what I am worried about[:] OS projects like ours use Clover
> and
> > and who knows what other NON-OS projects in the future. Clover rocks,
> > is pretty and all. Users and developers like us learn these systems,
> new
> > users and developers do NOT learn the OS Bugzilla and others, the OS
> > versions get less and less feedback and slowly die.
> I do appreciate were you are coming from.  On the flipside, bugzilla has
> been an impediment in many ways to our own Open Source development, and
> it
> seems to me that our primary responsibility is to our projects.  

How has bugzilla been an impediment?  Thousands of users and developers
use it successfully on a daily basis.  This is in spite of the apparent
lack of interface customization that appears possible based on other
bugzilla installations I've seen.

> In
> terms of
> administration, Jira appears to be substantially better for us (the ASF)
> than bugzilla without major changes to bugzilla.  

More importantly, how does moving to proprietary software over currently
well functioning OSS software benefit the community?

> Forget the fact that
> we
> have an ancient installation that no one wants to maintain; even the
> current
> version would not be as easy for us to use as an organization that
> bugzilla.
> And then toss in that Atlassian is not only giving us a free license,
> they
> are supporting us -- including making changes to the project.

So we're going to put in all this effort to migrate the commons to
proprietary software instead of improving the current OSS offerings
because they give the ASF a free license?  That doesn't make any sense to
me.  Couldn't the same amount of effort be spent improving our current

Part of the fun of developing code at Apache is knowing that we're helping
other people without asking for anything in return.  Helping other OSS
projects succeed is part of that spirit.  By moving away from OSS you've
just taken a bit of the fun out of developing for the ASF and that doesn't
help anyone.


> If Scarab were an ASF project, I'd be wanting to see us do more with our
> own
> dogfood, but it isn't.  I'm not even sure of the open source version of
> Scarab is going to be viable, but if it is in the future, and people
> care to
> review it again, that would be fine.  It is still installed on nagoya,
> and
> the new server will be to make sure that  we aren't
> tied
> to just one system.
> 	--- Noel

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