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Reply-To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:13:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Henri Yandell <bayard@generationjava.com>
To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Commons - TLP
In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1071967236@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0312211205320.9729-100000@umbongo.flamefew.net>
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

> One of the comments that I have seen in this thread is that J-C is a package
> deal - that J-C shouldn't be split up - all of the J-C projects should share
> the same fate.  Please allow me to put forth some commentary on this.

Chief reason for my pushing this is that this is the way J-C does things.
When Validator 10.x is released, the whole group votes on it. Reality is
that only those who form a part of the active community vote, but it's
open for all.

When Configuration wants to declare itself ready for primetime, we all
vote, when it wants to add a new committer, we all vote when this
committer is from outside the ASF. When they're from inside the ASF we
tend to get a bit confused :)

> our insights into this - perhaps it'll help frame your discussions.  The
> question I'd like to keep in the back of your minds is how would a Jakarta
> Commons TLP differ from an Apache Commons TLP?

There seem to be two differences so far. The first is in terms of the way
things are done. The bootstrap rules set in place for A-C do not fit how
J-C does things, but from what I understand this is not a huge problem as
A-C and J-C can both adapt when the time comes.

Language-centric is the other one. That's another reason for my proposal
of J-C as a whole to A-C. We maintain language-centric-ness and see if the
community wants to change over time.

> >From my outsiders' perspective, this cross-pollination is present to some
> extent here in Jakarta Commons already (yay!), but I think there's a
> reluctance to admit that this mailing list is really many different
> communities at work - every [subject] line group *is* a different community!

It may appear that way, but I think there are actually two major
communities in Commons and a few others who are their own.
Children-of-Struts and Children-of-Utils are the two large communities, in
that the overlap between those components are high. Other things like
httpclient and jelly are more stand-alone and have less overlap.

Still, you're mostly correct with respect to lots of individual
communities.

> There may be a lot of overlap between these communities and these communities
> may be small in size, but I believe each one should be able to direct itself
> according to their independent wishes.
>
> I know there's a lot of worry at the thought of partitioning J-C into
> codebases that may live in multiple TLPs or even in Apache Commons, but I'd
> just like to introduce some of the possible benefits and advantages of doing
> that.  It may seem scary to many at first, but I think the end result is far
> stronger communities.

More mail lists to listen to! ;)

Hen


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