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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Commons - TLP
Date Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:18:14 GMT
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 04:27:34PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> > 2) a-c becomes an umbrella project housing a virtually independent java
> > commons, a C commons, etc. I don't believe the Board or existing a-c would
> > be happy with this.
> I think this is up to the Commons community. Just because a minority of
> committers to Serf on the future Commons PMC want it to be non-language
> centric, the majority Java community who want to remain a community ought
> to be controlling their own fate.


> Effectively, if I were to take my proposal to the A-C guys, this would be
> underlined as:  "The community decides. While the community is majority
> Jakarta Commons, and we want to retain a language-centric separation, we
> expect this to be allowed. ", or some such.


> > 3) a-c is disbanded completely. j-c is then promoted to TLP using the
> > Commons name, and Java only.
> I don't see the Board ever wanting this. It was said that A-C was created
> partly because of success of J-C, so I can't see them wanting to drop
> their desire for non-Java based C.

Yup. The hope was for the communities to figure out a way to coordinate,
work together, and learn from one another. I believe the two communites
(the current A-C and J-C) have much to learn from each other.

> > Personally I have great difficulty with #1. I believe #2 won't happen. #3
> > would be really nice, but would require some humility in recognising a
> > mistake made in a-c. #5 is messy, as Commons is 'our' name before it was
> > kindof stolen. #4 is challenging, but maybe possible.

It wasn't stolen. The great work that J-C has done was recognized in the
choice of that name. But it wasn't J-C's. There is also an XML Commons and
a DB Commons. (tho I think DB Commons didn't exist at the time A-C was

> I'm equally happy with your #4, but I think the difficulty is harder than
> the getting #1 to happen. It's based on the assumption that projects will
> go TLP, and as Tomcat is synonymous with Jakarta in many locations, I can
> see why they would want to retain the brand. It's also the same as #5 in
> the long run.  #1 is within our control [and A-C], and not reliant on the
> entire Jakarta community at large.

Agreed, which is why I joined this list (with adequate filters to survive
the volume :-). I'm hoping to provide a bridge, to share perspectives,
between the two communities. I'd also like to learn more about J-C.


Greg Stein,

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