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From Geir Magnusson Jr. <>
Subject Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for math development?
Date Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:30:07 GMT

On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 06:51 PM, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On 11 Nov 2003, at 12:47, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 05:41 PM, robert burrell donkin 
>> wrote:
>>> a move to apache commons would allow this progression to happen much 
>>> more easily.
>> Why?
>>>  the rules which apply here in the jakarta-commons about components 
>>> and distributions would make things difficult. within a math group 
>>> in the apache commons, different products could be developed by the 
>>> same group of contributors with greater freedom. it would also allow 
>>> gui visualization components to be developed (which we cannot allow 
>>> here at jakarta).
>> I just can't understand what you mean.  To be clear :
>> 0) What rules make things difficult?
> the jakarta project has a given scope granted by the board. until 
> recently i though that i could give a rational justification that the 
> projects we have here are at jakarta in scope (given a wide enough 
> interpretation). IMHO we're now starting to forget the original 
> charter.

Starting???  :)  Please, we've been stretching the charter for *years*.

>> 1)  In Jakarta-Commons, the developers have the freedom to develop 
>> what they want, when they want to in their projects.  Additionally,  
>> developers can go off to the sandbox and do whatever they want, and 
>> when they feel that they have something solid, as to bring it to the 
>> commons community.  Did math have any trouble starting, defining 
>> their project, or implementing things they way they wanted?
> there were some troubles but the limited current scope of math is 
> fine. there are developments which are IMO definitely out of jakarta 
> scope. there are also a number of jakarta-commons specific rules that 
> would need to be bent to allow commons-maths to move in some 
> directions that the community might want to take it.
>> 2) I have a feeling that no one would utter a peep if someone did 
>> some GUI extensions to a project here at Jakarta.  We've always been 
>> willing to stretch the meaning of our charter (hence POI), and if it 
>> really came to be a problem, I think we would try to work it out.
> there seem to be a lot of senior apache members who don't agree with 
> that. i'd rather act to try to start sorting things out before whilst 
> the jakarta community still has a say.

You're notion of sorting it out seems to be "remove from Jakarta 
community".  That may be what the people involved want to do, which is 
fine by me, but if they want to stay, it behooves us on the PMC to try 
and see what we can do to help them out.


> - robert
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Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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