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From Martin Cooper <mart...@apache.org>
Subject RE: Company Acknowledgements [was :Re: [HiveMind] 1.0 Beta]
Date Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:25:07 GMT
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote:

> Making mountains out of molehills here, people.

No, it's not making mountains out of molehills. Right now, as I write
this, there is code in the Apache CVS repository which does not legally
belong to the ASF. Right now, the ASF is exposed, legally, because of
that.

It doesn't matter what "will" happen, or "should" happen, or what various
people "want" to happen. The truth is that the ASF is legally exposed.
That needs to be fixed, right now.

--
Martin Cooper


>
> WebCT wants to donate the IP free and clear.  I want them to. We even agree on what the
proposal
> looks like. The copyright will be assigned to ASF and the license will be ASL. The only
sticking
> point is the order of operations ... they would have prefered that the source code stay
private
> inside WebCT until they introduced the idea of contributing it. They realize that the
cat is out of
> the bag; more importantly, HiveMind is not a central part of their business (they do
enterprise
> education, not J2EE infrastructure). Let things slide a bit until the proposal is public
and you'll
> see there's no real issue here.
>
> Underlying this all is a disagreement between WebCT and myself about what IP is mine
(to assign over
> to the ASF) and what is there's. I could get into a pissing match with them -- but instead
we're
> *all* acting professionally and in good faith and in everyone's mutual interest, to make
this
> temporary ownership issue irrelevant.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
> http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/hivemind/
> http://javatapestry.blogspot.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Graham [mailto:grahamdavid1980@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:19 PM
> > To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> > Subject: RE: Company Acknowledgements [was :Re: [HiveMind] 1.0 Beta]
> >
> >
> >
> > --- hlship@comcast.net wrote:
> > > There was an even earlier post, to Jakarta General, concerning this
> > > question of IP.  I maintain, due to the volume of code and concepts
> > > that were copied out of (or adapted out of) Tapestry that
> > WebCT would
> > > not win any kind of legal challenge to the ownership of the
> > IP ... but
> > > it would be murky, based on my employment with them overlapping the
> > > development. The point is, by making them happy, the IP, ownership,
> > > copyright, etc., will be clearly owned by the ASF which is
> > in the best
> > > interests of myself, the HiveMind project, the ASF and WebCT.
> >
> > This answer isn't making me feel any better about the issues
> > surrounding HiveMind.  We need an official ruling from the
> > ASF (or other suitable Apache governing body) before HiveMind
> > can move forward.
> >
> > David
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > hlship@apache.org
> > >
> > > Creator, Tapestry: Java Web
> > > Components
> > > http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
> > > > > I've been trading drafts of the proposal and I think
> > they are on
> > > > > the right track. I suspect we'll be going forward soon
> > -- possibly
> > > > > today.
> > > >
> > > > I can't find in the archives where you've made the Jakarta PMC or
> > > > the
> > > ASF
> > > > Board aware of this specific incident.  When IP ownership issues
> > > > arise
> > > on a
> > > > project, as you made this project aware on October 22
> > > >
> > >
> > (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=commons-d
> > ev@jakarta.apa
> > > > che.org&msgId=1096118), it seems to me that either the PMC and/or
> > > > the
> > > Board
> > > > ought to be directly brought into the loop.  As you said,
> > > "fortunately,
> > > > nobody's out to cause trouble", but it could easily have gone the
> > > other way
> > > > (and it isn't resolved, yet).
> > > >
> > > > Robert Leland made the same comment to you on October 27th, about
> > > receiving
> > > > some guidance from the Foundation.  Corporate software
> > grants, such
> > > > as
> > > the
> > > > one with BEA for XMLBeans, are certainly do-able.  But
> > for a PMC and
> > > the
> > > > Board to ensure proper oversight within a TLP and across the ASF,
> > >
> > > > respectively, they need to be made aware of when problems such as
> > > > this
> > > one
> > > > arise.
> > > >
> > > > 	--- Noel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
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