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From __matthewHawthorne <>
Subject Re: [all] new list for cvs commits? (was Re: commons-configuration)
Date Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:38:36 GMT is great, that's how I access the apache mailing lists.  A 
good filtering technique is to mark all messages as read, except for 
projects that you're interested in.

I apologize for going off topic, but has anyone experienced delays when 
sending with gmane? My sent messages show up almost instantly on 
commons-dev and commons-user, but on the maven lists it takes 15 minutes 
or so, and on the ant lists it sometimes takes up to 12 hours.  Is there 
a known reason for the delay?

Craig R. McClanahan wrote:

> Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> It seems some prefer to keep the commit messages in the list, and 
>> others prefer a clean list with just the discussions. So what about 
>> this :
>> - commons-dev : discussions + cvs messages
>> - commons-cvs : only the cvs messages
>> - commons-talk: only the discussions
>> or maybe easier to set up :
>> - commons-dev : only the discussions
>> - commons-cvs : only the cvs messages
>> - commons-commiters : discussions + cvs messages (this list is 
>> subscribed to commons-dev and commons-cvs with a Reply-To header set 
>> to commons-dev)
>> This would suit to everyone.
>> Emmanuel
> -1.  Doing things this way (and it's been this way for several years now 
> on nearly every Jakarta project) is a critical success factor in 
> assuring the quality and popularity of the software created here.
> Developer lists are for the people developing the packages, and those 
> folks need to see the commits at all times in order to understand what 
> is changing, in addition to their responsibility to review commits at 
> all times.  Because it's open source, we're perfectly happy for 
> non-developers to listen in, offer suggestions, and do their own reviews 
> as well -- but a dev list is the fundamental working tool for the people 
> actually developing the code.  It therefore needs to be set up to meet 
> *their* needs.
> If you want discussions and conversations about packages, without the 
> commit messages, that's what the user list is for.  On most user lists, 
> the developers hang out as well, and will answer questions about what's 
> coming up in addition to how to use the package.
> If you want to see isolated discussions for a particular commons 
> package, encourage the developers for that package to create their own 
> specialized -dev and -user lists, like the httpclient folks did.  (I 
> personally wouldn't mind if the [math] folks did that, but it's totally 
> up to them -- I've got a filter for their traffic, which includes a 
> whole lot more discussion than it does CVS commits, by the way :-).
> If you just want to lurk on the developer lists, but still reduce the 
> message count, subscribe in digest mode instead.  Then, you'll get all 
> the messages for each day in one single message instead of individually.
> If you've got NNTP access, consider reading the groups through a 
> newsgroup interface.  For example, the news server at <> 
> mirrors many mailing lists, including this one (news host is 
>, newsgroup is "gmane.comp.jakarta.commons.devel").
> But, at the end of the day, if you are using a mail reader that can't 
> filter, get a new mail reader.  I'm sorry, but it's hard to be 
> sympathetic with that argument in this day and age.
> Craig

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