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From "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hls...@comcast.net>
Subject RE: [hivemind] Time to come out of the sandbox?
Date Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:54:08 GMT
I'm still very comfortable with it under the Jakarta umbrella, if not necessarily under commons.
 I
don't think there's enough in HiveMind to support a top-level project. In light of your arguments,
an appropriate location would be as a peer to Tapestry under Jakarta.


--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/hivemind/
http://javatapestry.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:scolebourne@btopenworld.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:46 PM
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [hivemind] Time to come out of the sandbox?
> 
> 
> I would like to suggest a higher level than commons. IIRC the 
> commons charter advises against 'frameworks', which strikes 
> me as covering [hivemind]. There are a number of clues that 
> support this:
> 
> 1) number of dependencies - a commons component should have 
> relatively few dependencies. Hivemind has lots.
> 
> 2) multiproject - a commons component should usually be one 
> maven component. If it builds multiple jars, one should ask 
> how this fits. Controlling and releasing those jars is 
> perhaps a job for a more standalone project.
> 
> 3) name - a commons component should have a 'boring' name 
> that represents exactly what it does. Hence lang, 
> collections, reflect, primitives, io, beanutils, convert etc.
> 
> 4) mailing lists - a fickel way of judging something, but a 
> lot of mails can indicate a community in and of itself. 
> Intriguingly it was proposed that [jelly] should migrate out 
> of commons at one point due to high mailing list traffic. 
> Afterwards the traffic dropped, and the community evaporated 
> despite being used in maven. It would have been an 
> interesting experiment to see what would have happened if it 
> had migrated. Perhaps it would have helped form the community.
> 
> 
> Since [hivemind] fulfils a similar role (in some ways) to 
> Avalon, maybe the top level at apache is appropriate. I have 
> a feeling that the ASF board may have difficulties with that 
> however. The jakarta level may be easier to get into.
> 
> Note that there are other components in commons that probably 
> shouldn't be there for similar reasons. Jelly being notable. 
> It is very difficult of course to find the right balance 
> between a 'common shared component' and a 'project in its own 
> right'. For example, by location, jaxen is a project in its 
> own right, but jxpath is a common component.
> 
> I won't block a commons proper [hivemind], but I feel -0 
> describes my feeling about it as a location for this code.
> 
> Stephen
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hlship@comcast.net>
> > I've always expected HiveMind to be a commons sub-project; 
> a peer of 
> > lang
> and logging.
> >
> > I've actually been quite surprised at the level of interest in 
> > HiveMind;
> must have struck a nerve.
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components 
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/hivemind/
> > http://javatapestry.blogspot.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dion@multitask.com.au [mailto:dion@multitask.com.au]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 9:43 PM
> > > To: commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org
> > > Subject: [hivemind] Time to come out of the sandbox?
> > >
> > >
> > > Isn't it time for hivemind to come out of the sandbox?
> > >
> > > Should hivemind be a commons component or a subproject of jakarta 
> > > like tapestry is?
> > > --
> > > dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
> > > Blog:      http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/
> > >
> > >
> > > 
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> >
> > 
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> 
> 
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