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From "Mark R. Diggory" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Date Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:35:35 GMT

Your viewpoint is warranted and understandable, the motivation for the 
sandbox is to provide a means to refactor existing projects/fragments 
into better designed components, As such its fair to see its activity 
oriented to existing developers. I know I was voted in for both my 
interest in the Math component project and the past work I've done with 
Jelly and HttpClient.

But IMHO, this is a unique case that should be reconsidered. Consider 
the following: a non-commiter reviews a project in the Commons, sees 
that there are avenues for enhancment or refactoring, and proposes a 
project to consolidate/enhance those features. This proposal is approved 
and a new sandbox project is born.  Because the one who proposed the 
project is not already a commiter, their efforts are diminished during 
the projects initial development. Thus "limiting" the projects 
productivity and future development.

I don't believe math started as an independent project, math is the 
foster child of the lang project, based on decisions about enhancing and 
giving a home to the math features that are present there. As such, 
there is a grey area here.  As Phil's basis for proposing was on code in 
[lang] it possibly seems the responsibility for nominating commit rights 
falls on the shoulders of that original commons component [lang]. This 
is based on the discussions about placing math tools in lang that gave 
rise to the sandbox math development.

Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the fact 
that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards" is 
coming from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it 
unfair to exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it to 

Long live Jakarta-Commons,
Mark Diggory

robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities 
> required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the 
> commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to 
> the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's 
> against the spirit of the common charter.
> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the sandbox,
>  nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and 
> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that 
> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that 
> we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the 
> commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is 
> insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be 
> insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers. 

> i'd like to 
> ask the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that 
> commons-math has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also 
> hope that phil doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against 
> him personally but against the principle of nominating new non-apache 
> committers for sandbox components).
> -1
> - robert
> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for 
>> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial 
>> proposal author on the math project. That in and of itself should be 
>> enough to warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches 
>> and is now considering development of the "complex number" 
>> architecture for the package. I think he would make an excellent 
>> commiter as he has done a great deal of work via patches to clarify 
>> the coding, testing and documentation standards for the math project. 
>> We *need* him to have commit rights on this project before we can make 
>> it to release.
>> +1
>> Mark Diggory
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