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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: Query: Hosting Avalon Components
Date Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:03:45 GMT
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>>PS:  An Avalon component wrapper around the functionality of an existing
>>Commons package would seem perfectly reasonable to stick into that Commons
>>package's sources -- in the same way that one might include, say, an Ant
>>custom task to invoke it if you're using Ant.
> Actually I think this idetifies the key difference with Avalon. Ant is a de
> facto standard. Avalon is not. IMHO, jakarta-commons can and should host Ant
> wrappers if required, but not Avalon ones.
> My view follows a layered approach:
> - Application
> - App framework (Avalon/EJB)
> - Utilities (jakarta-commons)
> - Tools (Ant, Eclipse)
> - Java
> Thus it is a higher level's responsibility to host wrappers for lower level
> ones.

I totally agree with the general approach, but where you put "avalon" is 
a large part of the perceived problem. Layering:

application framework (jboss, avalon-phoenix)
utilities (commons-httpclient, altrmi, jelly)
low-level utility material (commons-lang, commons-logging, java.util, 

the key thing here is that /avalon-framework/ is low level utility 
material. One easy way to see the actual layering is by looking at the 
gump dependency chain; you'll find avalon-framework rather high up on 
the list.

As to standard, nope, avalon is not (but watch JSR 111!), but I don't 
think (imho again) you should require technology to be a "standard" 
before accepting a dependency on it in jakarta-commons, nor is this 
current practice (looking at gump once more, parts of jakarta-commons 
currently depends on stuff like nsuml, velocity, qdox, minml, nekohtml, ...)

Put another way, if maven becomes a standard like ant, will it be 
acceptable to host maven wrappers? What if maven is built using 
avalon-framework (which is in the works)?


- Leo

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