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From John Yu <>
Subject Re: [clazz] Scope?
Date Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:34:29 GMT
At 02:11 pm 27-10-2002, you wrote:
>On Sunday 27 October 2002 01:51 am, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > John Yu wrote:
> > > Anyway, back to my question: Do we need to clarify the scope?
> >
> > The metaclass framework is a good thing.  I think that should be the
> > core focus.
>I think part of the problem is that metaclass is an overloaded term. I don't
>think we mean to provide a metaclass framework, in the sense that an instance
>of Metaclass would be a Class. Then we're getting into the areas of MOPs,
>Model Driven Architecture, and other (admittedly interesting) stuff. And it's
>hard to do in Java.
>I think we're talking about class metadata. Class metadata isn't itself a
>metaclass ...
>OK, maybe it is. I get lost sometimes between M2 and M3, and whether M3 
>can be
>reflected in M2 for OO systems. Particularly late on a Saturday night, when a
>sensible person would be doing something other than dealing with abstract
>object theory.
>Are instances of the meta stuff we're talking about descriptions of other
>classes, or, are they classes themselves?

(When I use the term "metaclass framework", I mean a MOP API which allows 
you to manipulate class definition at runtime.)

What exactly does "metadata" do/mean? (This is a sincere question. :-)
More precisely, what can Alavon's "meta-attributes" do? (Again, a sincere 

I suspect most of these "meta-" systems overlap, at least in terms of 

Again, I think it's important to define a concrete scope for [clazz]. It 
seems to me it means different things to different people.

John Yu

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