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From Richard Sitze <rsi...@us.ibm.com>
Subject Re: [OT] Newcomers
Date Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:13:55 GMT
>What I resent is people forgeting the goal of commons - to provide a way 
>for jakarta projects to share code - and writing code 'for the sake of
>writing code'. Not having a real use for the code in a project leads
>to aberant discussions and decisions - like the one on private/public,
>bad code ( either bloat or lack of focus ).

One person's focus is another's bloat.

>IMO if a piece of code in commons is not in active use by at least 
>one jakarta project, it is a waste of time and shouldn't be here.

A chicken-and-egg conundrum if I ever saw one...

Other projects don't want to use code from the sandbox.  Outside 
projects/users don't want dependencies on (potentially) unsupported 
projects, so the sandbox is a dead-box.

On the other hand, projects are extremely focused (as they should be), and 
resist development of code that isn't directly related to the goals of the 
projects.  This is appropriate.  Commons-sandbox & commons are ideal 
breeding grounds for side projects that can EVOLVE into something useful. 
I, for one, made a deliberate decision to kick off one such side-project 
in commons, rather than bury it in a small corner of the universe, because 
I *wanted* input, direction, and requirements from more experienced 
developers in the community and the community process (and I'm getting 
them, thanks).  The result is, as expected, much better than the original 
- and improving.

If commons is simply a dump for existing code that can be reused, and not 
an incubator for ideas and projects WORTH sharing, then I'm clearly one of 
the worst offenders.

<ras>  -   a newcomer


*******************************************
Richard A. Sitze





costinm@covalent.net
08/22/2002 03:26 PM
Please respond to "Jakarta Commons Developers List"
 
        To:     Jakarta Commons Developers List 
<commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [OT] Newcomers

 


On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Stephen Colebourne wrote:

> As commons has continued, and grown, various committers have arrived who 
do
> not commit to a parent project, and simply wish to commit to commons. I 
am
> one of those.


> Recent debates, in more than one thread, have clearly indicated that 
some of
> the original committers resent this. Newcomers have been treated with

What I resent is people forgeting the goal of commons - to provide a way 
for jakarta projects to share code - and writing code 'for the sake of
writing code'. Not having a real use for the code in a project leads
to aberant discussions and decisions - like the one on private/public,
bad code ( either bloat or lack of focus ).

IMO if a piece of code in commons is not in active use by at least 
one jakarta project, it is a waste of time and shouldn't be here. 
If long term it doesn't get at least 2 projects using it - then
it is not a 'success'. 

It is perfectly reasonable for 'newcomers' who need a piece of 
commons software to behave in a way that makes it useable for 
them to make those changes. It is expected that those using the
code in real projects will use their votes to make sure the 
changes are not breaking their stuff.

In the end if we can get a piece of code to be used by 2 projects -
and compromises are expected - then we succeed. 



> I can cope with this only because I can see it for what it is. Its about
> letting go, exactly as parents can often have difficulty letting go of 
their
> children as they grow up. Except of course the parents are the original
> committers and the child is the source code.

That's totally wrong - the code is not put in commons to 'let it go'
or transfer to someone. It is here so other can join and share the
code and development. 

This is not 'abandoned' code. 

And this is not a 'children' that grows up - but part of the projects that 

accept to share it with others. 



> Remember, the jakarta commons website says
> "We welcome participation from all that are interested, at all skill 
levels.
> Coding, documentation and testing are all critical parts of the software
> development process. If you are interested in participating in any of 
these
> aspects, please join us!"

Participating is one thing - breaking the code for the projects that are 
actually using it for whatever reasons is not the participation we expect.


Costin


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