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From "Steve Downey" <steve.dow...@netfolio.com>
Subject RE: [OT] Newcomers
Date Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:44:17 GMT
I assume you're referring to discovery/discover. I think it's a shining
example of how the commons and commons-sandbox are supposed to work. Now, of
course, I wouldn't use anything directly out of the sandbox. It's way to
likely to flux, morph, or explode while I have my back turned. Or just die,
sadly abandoned because it didn't work out.

However, it might gain some momentum because it's clearly useful.

I'd bet discovery will probably get adopted by at least one project as soon
as it hits commons. One project is probably the right number while the API
is unstable, but in this case it looks like the kinks will mostly be worked
out while it's in sandbox. But there's nothing like real use to wear the
rough spots down. Two projects, unless the developers working on the
component are simpatico, (or the same), might pull the API in too many
directions. One plus kibitzers seems to work, though.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Sitze [mailto:rsitze@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:14 PM
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Newcomers
>
>
> >What I resent is people forgeting the goal of commons - to provide a way
> >for jakarta projects to share code - and writing code 'for the sake of
> >writing code'. Not having a real use for the code in a project leads
> >to aberant discussions and decisions - like the one on private/public,
> >bad code ( either bloat or lack of focus ).
>
> One person's focus is another's bloat.
>
> >IMO if a piece of code in commons is not in active use by at least
> >one jakarta project, it is a waste of time and shouldn't be here.
>
> A chicken-and-egg conundrum if I ever saw one...
>
> Other projects don't want to use code from the sandbox.  Outside
> projects/users don't want dependencies on (potentially) unsupported
> projects, so the sandbox is a dead-box.
>
> On the other hand, projects are extremely focused (as they should
> be), and
> resist development of code that isn't directly related to the
> goals of the
> projects.  This is appropriate.  Commons-sandbox & commons are ideal
> breeding grounds for side projects that can EVOLVE into something useful.
> I, for one, made a deliberate decision to kick off one such side-project
> in commons, rather than bury it in a small corner of the
> universe, because
> I *wanted* input, direction, and requirements from more experienced
> developers in the community and the community process (and I'm getting
> them, thanks).  The result is, as expected, much better than the original
> - and improving.
>
> If commons is simply a dump for existing code that can be reused, and not
> an incubator for ideas and projects WORTH sharing, then I'm
> clearly one of
> the worst offenders.
>
> <ras>  -   a newcomer
>
>
> *******************************************
> Richard A. Sitze
>
>
>
>
>
> costinm@covalent.net
> 08/22/2002 03:26 PM
> Please respond to "Jakarta Commons Developers List"
>
>         To:     Jakarta Commons Developers List
> <commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
>         cc:
>         Subject:        Re: [OT] Newcomers
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>
> > As commons has continued, and grown, various committers have
> arrived who
> do
> > not commit to a parent project, and simply wish to commit to commons. I
> am
> > one of those.
>
>
> > Recent debates, in more than one thread, have clearly indicated that
> some of
> > the original committers resent this. Newcomers have been treated with
>
> What I resent is people forgeting the goal of commons - to provide a way
> for jakarta projects to share code - and writing code 'for the sake of
> writing code'. Not having a real use for the code in a project leads
> to aberant discussions and decisions - like the one on private/public,
> bad code ( either bloat or lack of focus ).
>
> IMO if a piece of code in commons is not in active use by at least
> one jakarta project, it is a waste of time and shouldn't be here.
> If long term it doesn't get at least 2 projects using it - then
> it is not a 'success'.
>
> It is perfectly reasonable for 'newcomers' who need a piece of
> commons software to behave in a way that makes it useable for
> them to make those changes. It is expected that those using the
> code in real projects will use their votes to make sure the
> changes are not breaking their stuff.
>
> In the end if we can get a piece of code to be used by 2 projects -
> and compromises are expected - then we succeed.
>
>
>
> > I can cope with this only because I can see it for what it is. Its about
> > letting go, exactly as parents can often have difficulty letting go of
> their
> > children as they grow up. Except of course the parents are the original
> > committers and the child is the source code.
>
> That's totally wrong - the code is not put in commons to 'let it go'
> or transfer to someone. It is here so other can join and share the
> code and development.
>
> This is not 'abandoned' code.
>
> And this is not a 'children' that grows up - but part of the
> projects that
>
> accept to share it with others.
>
>
>
> > Remember, the jakarta commons website says
> > "We welcome participation from all that are interested, at all skill
> levels.
> > Coding, documentation and testing are all critical parts of the software
> > development process. If you are interested in participating in any of
> these
> > aspects, please join us!"
>
> Participating is one thing - breaking the code for the projects that are
> actually using it for whatever reasons is not the participation we expect.
>
>
> Costin
>
>
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