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From "Juozas Baliuka" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] (re-vote) XxxUtils constructors
Date Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:55:45 GMT
I do not thing it is some "COMMONS FAILURE', we found a solution,
not the "best", but "good" :)
I am -0 to add EL to commons, I think it can be better maintained in taglibs
and is too specific, but it is not any kind of "veto"  and I will vote -1 if
somebody will decide to breake it (I do not use EL, but I am JSP user).

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] (re-vote) XxxUtils constructors

> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > All : There is something very scary when Costin and I align so closely
on an
> > issue.  Remember - Costin isn't a Velocity developer or a Velocity user.
> I've seen slide beeing screwed when httpclient stoped worked, and I've
> seen Remy's reaction and the flamewar. And I can imagine what would
> I do if someone starts changing digester or modeler and tomcat no
> longer works.
> The only way for commons to succeed is by building trust between projects.
> I don't give a damn about the 'perfect' interface - if 2-3 jakarta
> projects find a library is good enough for them and can share it,
> than that's a perfect one for commons.
> I don't use velocity - but I expect similar problems will happen with EL
> and probably many other introspection-based languages. But that's
> not important - there are technical solutions and fixes.
> What's important is the attitude of 'we know better' and doing stuff in
> commons that doesn't take into account the goal of getting the code
> shared and adopted by real projects.. And breaking the trust that
> jakarta projects may begin to have in commons as a place to put
> and use code, knowing that they'll be safe.
> How to fix this ? I don't know. Maybe we must start requiring a
> jakarta project actively using the commons component ? Should we
> make it more clear ( large font on the first page ) that
> projects that contribute and share code in commons _do_ have
> the veto right and voting power and should use them ?
> > > And make sure that you monitor your code in the future and -1 any
> > > that brakes something. That's what the veto is supposed to do.
> >
> > You are right.
> >
> > In my defense, I have tried to approach this discussion as an interested
> > customer of the codebase, and a concerned citizen of the commons, not as
> > of the initial contributors to the codebase trying to 'keep control' or
> > something like that.
> Well, I haven't contributed too much to digester for example, but if
> some change brakes tomcat be sure that I'll not approach it
> as 'an interested customer'.
> The code that we share is a part of the project - and we should behave
> exactly as if the commons CVS would be part of our project CVS. Even
> if you don't participate in every area of development, if something
> brakes you should try to fix it,  you should review the changes, etc.
> Costin
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