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From "Martin Cooper" <>
Subject RE: [VOTE] Create new commons-sandbox-dev mailing list
Date Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:23:07 GMT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: []
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:55 PM
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> Subject: RE: [VOTE] Create new commons-sandbox-dev mailing list
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Martin Cooper wrote:
> > Better, splitting off HttpClient as a top level Jakarta 
> project, assuming
> > the committers would like to do that. That would have my 
> +1. Splitting off a
> > mailing list for HttpClient would have my +0, for reasons 
> described below.
> First, it's the PMC that should accept it as top-level project. 

True. But I'm allowed to state my opinion. ;-)

> And I'm not very sure it's a good idea - it works very well as part
> of commons.

So did Cactus. But there came a time when Cactus had matured sufficiently,
and was generating so much traffic on this list, that it made sense for it
to be promoted to a full Jakarta project. And that's what happened. It seems
to me that HttpClient is in exactly this state now, so I believe it makes
complete sense to take the same approach.

> Having separate mailing lists for http client ( or any other commons
> component that wants to ) is possible and a good idea - all it
> needs is a vote from the commiters.
> > I'm -1 on the original proposal, for reasons that have 
> already been stated
> > by others (Hen & Geir). In addition, I don't like the idea 
> of sandbox folks
> > operating in a vacuum, without knowing what's going on in 
> Commons proper,
> I'm not sure I understand the reasons.
> So you want to force everyone working on commons projects to read
> and follow the sandbox ? That's crazy - I can barely follow all
> the components in commons.

Be on mailing list != Read all messages. I'm sure you don't read all the
messages on this list, any more than I do. I doubt that anybody does.

My point is not that everyone working on Commons projects should *read* all
Sandbox related messages, but that everyone working on Sandbox projects
should at least *see* all Commons messages. It's important that Sandbox
developers know what's going on in the world to which they aspire to be

And, as I said, I think it's important to keep Commons as a single
community. To have two groups of people off doing their own thing in two
different worlds is not what Commons was created for.

Martin Cooper

> The argument that everyone must be forced to read won't work
> anyway - it's just a bit harder to hit 'd' few dozends times
> and deal with a messy mailbox. 
> Costin
> > where they presumably aspire to be. I realise that some of 
> the sandbox
> > developers will want to be on both lists, but I think all 
> of them should be,
> > so that they're aware of what's happening on other Commons 
> projects. I'd
> > rather see Commons as a single community than as two 
> connected by a subset
> > of the developers.
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