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From "James Strachan" <james_strac...@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject Re: [VOTE] new commiter Stephen Colebourne was [BeanUtils][Betwixt][commons] [jxpath] Proposal: Reflection/Introspection/MetaData package
Date Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:21:17 GMT
+1

James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henri Yandell" <bayard@generationjava.com>
> +1
>
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Juozas Baliuka wrote:
>
> >
> > I want to nominate Stephen Colebourne as commiter on  commons and
sandbox,
> > He is one of the most active contributors with the great ideas and we
know
> > his code.
> > I think we need to give him chance to do more for commons project.
> > We will need him in new project for reflection/introspection, proposal
you
> > can find on this list( [BeanUtils][Betwixt][commons] [jxpath] Proposal:
> > Reflection/Introspection/MetaData package)
> > +1
> >
> >
> > > Steven,
> > >
> > > First, if you have not yet, read
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/roles.html.
> > >
> > > Second, write a "hello, world" message to
commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org,
> > so
> > > that people know what your credentials are. If you aready have,
re-post
> > it,
> > > because people tend to forget.  If you have contributed to any open
source
> > > projects, don't forget to mention that.  Say in that message that you
> > would
> > > like to become a committer on this new project. Since the project is
going
> > > to the sandbox first, I don't think anybody will have an objection.
Then
> > > somebody will recommend you as a contributor.  Then people will vote.
> > Done.
> > >
> > > - Dmitri
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Stephen Colebourne" <scolebourne@btopenworld.com>
> > > To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 1:36 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [BeanUtils][Betwixt][commons] [jxpath] Proposal:
> > > Reflection/Introspection/MetaData package
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Merged reply]
> > > > Thanks for the encouragement!
> > > >
> > > > Replies have mentioned:
> > > >  BeanUtils
> > > >  Betwixt
> > > >  JXpath
> > > >  ANT
> > > >  Velocity
> > > >  Tomcat
> > > >  Axis
> > > > There's some homework there! But it does show that the reflection
API in
> > > > Java is proving to be too low level. Perfect for commons ;-)
> > > >
> > > > I agree with the view that rushing into this one will be a bad idea.
So
> > > some
> > > > requirements gathering makes sense to me. This would need to be a
> > > community
> > > > effort, and written chapters could be the solution. But I also like
to
> > > have
> > > > some code present just to get people talking.
> > > >
> > > > Name: I was going to propose 'reflect' as I prefer names close to
what
> > the
> > > > thing does for low level components.
> > > >
> > > > Also, thanks for offers of committing on this. Hopefully we can get
off
> > to
> > > a
> > > > good start with lots of input.
> > > >
> > > > It has been suggested that I should just create a new folder in the
> > > sandbox
> > > > and begin. Er, slight problem with that - I'm not a committer
(anywhere
> > on
> > > > Apache). Not sure how you want to deal with that?
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dmitri Plotnikov" <dmitri@apache.org>
> > > > To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List"
<commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:15 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [BeanUtils][Betwixt][commons] [jxpath] Proposal:
> > > > Reflection/Introspection/MetaData package
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The multitude of potential users of this component is huge, they
all
> > > have
> > > > > current solutions and they all have some peculiarities about them.
> > For
> > > > this
> > > > > new component to be successful, we will need to address all of
those
> > > > > requirements, which calls for an abstract, configurable and
> > customizable
> > > > > architecture.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe that before we can propose an architecture, we need to
> > collect
> > > > the
> > > > > requirements. How about we start off by pulling together all of
them
> > > into
> > > > > one set of documents?   I will gladly contribute the
"Introspection in
> > > > > JXPath" chapter.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, we'll need a name for this new thing.  How about Jin?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Dmitri
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <costinm@covalent.net>
> > > > > To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List"
<commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:55 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [BeanUtils][Betwixt][commons] Proposal:
> > > > > Reflection/Introspection/MetaData package
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > See also o.a.tomcat.util.IntrospectionUtils :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It also have a nice feature - it takes an args[], and using
> > > > introspection
> > > > > > calls the setters, using "-name value" or "-name", based on
the
> > method
> > > > > > signatures - setName( boolean ) or setName(
String/int/whatever )
> > > > > > I personally find it very usefull - with a main() and 2 lines
of
> > code
> > > > > > you can get a class that works as an Ant task or a bean or CLI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would also count the axis introspection classes, and probably
few
> > > > > > others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Costin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 16 Jun 2002, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also check this with the ant team, who have a lot of
introspection
> > > in
> > > > > > > there code.. It works on all jdk versions afaik.
> > > > > > > See o.a.tools.ant.Introspectionhelper.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1 on the idea btw..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mvgr,
> > > > > > > Martin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 13:40, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > Currently, Betwixt and other users of BeanUtils rely
on the
> > > > java.beans
> > > > > class
> > > > > > > > Introspector to extract details from a class. Introspector
is a
> > > very
> > > > > old and
> > > > > > > > limited class in todays terms:
> > > > > > > > - it doesn't support collections, just simple objects
and
arrays
> > > > > > > > - it doesn't support modern conventions such as addXxx()
adds to
> > a
> > > > the
> > > > > xxx
> > > > > > > > list
> > > > > > > > - it doesn't support overloading well
> > > > > > > > - the bean info technique is difficult to code, poorly
> > understood
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > limiting
> > > > > > > > - it's just too plain dumb.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I propose that BeanUtils/Betwixt/commons should replace
> > > Introspector
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > more general purpose reflection/introspection package.
> > > > Architecturally
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > would sit above reflection, but below Introspection:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Requirements/Goals:
> > > > > > > > - handle classes other than beans
> > > > > > > > - support extensible metadata (not just for GUI builders)
> > > > > > > > - handle normal (today) bean conventions (get/set/add/put
> > methods)
> > > > > > > > - handle future conventions that are not yet standard
> > > > > > > > - support method overloading
> > > > > > > > - be easily used directly from BeanUtils and Betwixt
(and
> > probably
> > > > > others)
> > > > > > > > - be a complete alternative to using java.lang.reflect
> > > > > > > > - return immutable objects
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My proposed solution (not coded, fully open to discussion):
> > > > > > > > Build a system with similarities to Digester. Rules
get
called
> > > when
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > class is examined determine how to link the methods
together.
> > For
> > > > > example
> > > > > > > > the FindGetPropertyMethodRule would look at method
names
> > starting
> > > > with
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > > etc. The rule then classifies the method as a GET
method and
> > > stores
> > > > it
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > a structure something like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - MethodSetInfo - holds details about a related set
of
methods.
> > > > > > > > public String getName()
> > > > > > > > public List getMethodInfos()
> > > > > > > > public MethodInfo getMethodInfo(name)
> > > > > > > > public Map getMetaData()
> > > > > > > > public MetaData getMetaData(String name)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - ClassInfo - main class that holds the representation
of
class.
> > > > > Subclass of
> > > > > > > > MethodSetInfo
> > > > > > > > public List getMethodSetInfos()
> > > > > > > > public MethodSetInfo getMethodSetInfo(name)
> > > > > > > > public List getMethodSetInfos(methodSetType)
> > > > > > > > public MethodSetInfo getMethodSetInfo(methodSetType,
name)
> > > > > > > > public PropertyInfo getPropertyInfo(name)  // convenience
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - PropertyInfo - subclass of MethodSetInfo for properties
> > > > (Lists/Maps
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > tbd)
> > > > > > > > public Class getPropertyType()
> > > > > > > > public MethodInfo getGetMethodInfo()  // convenience
> > > > > > > > public MethodInfo getSetMethodInfo()  // convenience
> > > > > > > > public Object getValue()
> > > > > > > > public void setValue()
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - MethodInfo - categorised info about a method
> > > > > > > > public String getName()
> > > > > > > > public Method getMethod()
> > > > > > > > publc String getCategory()
> > > > > > > > public Map getMetaData()
> > > > > > > > public MetaData getMetaData(String name)
> > > > > > > > public Object invoke(object, args, respectAccessFlags)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Attached to each element is the ability to hold MetaData.
This
> > is
> > > > > > > > particularly important for Betwixt. It would allow
the
> > XMLBeanInfo
> > > > > class to
> > > > > > > > be held directly on the representation of the class.
And I'm
> > sure
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > > projects want MetaData - its supposed to be a long
standing
> > > request
> > > > > for J2SE
> > > > > > > > (I know I need it for the Joda project).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Note that I haven't expanded on the Rule part at the
moment.
> > > > > Basically,
> > > > > > > > people must be able to write their own rules and add
them to
the
> > > > > standard
> > > > > > > > rules for beans.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for which project it belongs with...I suggest lang
or
> > something
> > > > new
> > > > > > > > (reflect?). I would like to extract it from BeanUtils
because
> > its
> > > > not
> > > > > Bean
> > > > > > > > specific.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well, its an idea at the moment. There are some similarities
to
> > > > > DynaBeans,
> > > > > > > > but I think it goes way further. I already have a
partial
> > version
> > > of
> > > > > this,
> > > > > > > > but its specific to my needs. It needs some rework
anyway,
so I
> > > > > thought
> > > > > > > > about if it could be generic. Opinions??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Stephen
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS. Three more possibilities for lang:
> > > > > > > > Nameable
> > > > > > > > MetaData
> > > > > > > > Rule
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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