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From Henri Yandell <bay...@generationjava.com>
Subject Re: Resisting the temptation
Date Fri, 10 May 2002 14:17:40 GMT

Heh. This is an itch of mine. I want to wrap a bunch of the Commons jar's
into a core jar, but it's a different set of jars than these. It's
something I do with my own code, and as Kurt has pointed out, as it gets
more successful it is an increasingly annoying problem.

If the issue is just, there are 4 jars versus 1 jar, then I say deal with
it. It's an inherent problem in the Java library system and hopefully a
CJAN built on one of the jar-management projects  will solve that kinda
stuff.

If the issue is having log4j dependent on commons.logging, which seems a
little odd, that might require some other thunking.

Hen


On Fri, 10 May 2002, James Strachan wrote:

> Hi Ceki
>
> Anyone who uses the digester needs digester, beanutils, collections and
> logging. Its a shame there's not just a single jar for all these 4 (very
> common) things. How about we bundle these 4 things into a single 'uber-jar'?
> Say, commons-core.jar. We could maybe ensure that whenever we release one of
> these 4 jars, we release the whole bundle (commons-core) together too. Or we
> could just get jjar/maven rocking... :-)
>
> James
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ceki Gülcü" <ceki@qos.ch>
> To: <commons-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 2:06 PM
> Subject: Resisting the temptation
>
>
> >
> > Greetings to all,
> >
> > As most of you are probably aware, log4j version 1.2 final was released
> > just a few hours ago. One of the important planned new features of
> > log4j 1.3 is the capability to interpret configuration files (in XML)
> > with tags that were unknown at compile time. In other words, we would
> > like log4j to be able to learn about new tags dynamically. This
> > probably similar to ANT's capability of learning new tasks.
> >
> > The commons-digester library offers the infrastructure to support such
> > capability. In short, I think commons-digester has what log4j
> > needs. However, commons-digester requires commons-collections,
> > commons-beanutils and commons-logging. Here is short list of concerns
> > in increasing order of importance:
> >
> > 1) That's log4j.jar plus 4 jars instead of just log4j.jar.
> >
> > 2) Commons-xxx depends on JDK 1.2 where as log4j runs with JDK 1.1.
> >
> > 3) Circular dependencies. Log4j depends on commons-digester, which
> > depends on commons-logging which depends on log4j.
> >
> > Given this seemingly intractable concerns, I have asked Costin
> > Manolache, Craig McClanahan and Scott Sanders to borrow the
> > commons-digester code. They all graciously granted permission for the
> > modification of their code and its inclusion in log4j.
> >
> > So what's problem you might ask?  Well, it seems rather wasteful to
> > start a new code base while a perfectly good one exists already.  In
> > other words, I am trying to resist the urge to start all over again.
> >
> > Concern number 1), that is the increase in the number of jars, is a fact
> > of (modular) life. As for concern 2), log4j can enforce that the
> extensible
> > configuration capability requires JDK 1.2 while the rest remains JDK 1.1
> > compatible. Concern 3) is the one I find most challenging. There are 3
> > possible approaches:
> >
> > 1) commons-digester et al. drop the requirement for commons-logging.
> > 2) log4j accepts to depend on commons-logging
> > 3) some new innovative approach...
> >
> > Solution 1) is probably not acceptable to the commons community.
> > Solution 2 is not acceptable to the log4j community.  Solution 3
> > requires a fresh approach.  Can you please help us find a solution in
> order to
> > resist the temptation?
> >
> > TIA, Ceki
> >
> >
> > --
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