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From "Scott Sanders" <ssand...@nextance.com>
Subject RE: Who Commits to What
Date Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:40:18 GMT
Thank you Peter.  I now think that I fully understand your issue with
the current system.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org] 
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:04 PM
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: Who Commits to What
> 
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:37, Ted Husted wrote:
> > Peter Donald wrote:
> > > If you want for Avalon to move all its components across 
> then there 
> > > is one thing that needs to be changed. Same thing as it was when 
> > > Commons was incepted, same thing I have been saying for ages. If 
> > > working with Avalon is not desired then nothing needs to 
> be changed.
> >
> > Perhaps you've answered this before, and I've missed it, but how is 
> > commit and voting rights different in the Commons than on any large 
> > Jakarta subproject?
> 
> The number of committers, the level of interaction between 
> committers and the 
> ease of becoming a committer. 
> 
> Commons has a larger number of committers - the rate at which 
> new committers 
> are added is only going to increase as it grows. Lets assume 
> theres 25 
> committers now - I would not be surprised to see that this 
> increased to 50 
> within a year. So commons promotes quantity of committers.
> 
> Committers don't have the requirement to interact with other commons 
> committers. It is a simple manner to get voted in when 90% of 
> the commons 
> group does not know the committer it doesn't matter. So 
> interaction is not an 
> important aspect of being a commons committer.
> 
> Committers also have a very easy way to get in - all they 
> need to do is 
> submit a componet and voila! They are in.
> 
> Compare this to any other project - large or not. I have no 
> idea on the 
> largest project (maybe TC?) so lets imagine it is TC. Even 
> including all the 
> current active committers in TC I suspect it would be far 
> less than Commons? 
> I suspect they all at least are aware of each other - even if 
> they are 
> segmented into TC3 vs TC4 (is that still true?). And I 
> suspect TC also 
> demands that the developers show a higher level of commitment 
> before being 
> nominated as committers.
> 
> > When the code is donated to a subproject, all Committers to the 
> > subproject have equal responsiblity for its maintenance and 
> continued 
> > deveopment.
> 
> Now thats an interesting perspective. The ecletic mix of 
> components and dev 
> styles is unlikely to engender central control
> 
> > If it might fall to me to support something, then I should 
> have a say 
> > over what I may need to support. Unilateral vetos only apply to 
> > product changes, and must be justifiable. You can't veto a 
> release, or 
> > a plan, only real code or real documentation. A real veto 
> must provide 
> > real alternatives or present real technical problems, or it is not 
> > justifiable. If you don't believe me, ask Brian or Roy.
> 
> It is easy enough to jig the system and come up with a "real" 
> reason to veto 
> something
> 
> > AFAIK, there is no precedent for saying a Committer to 
> subproject can 
> > vote on this or that, but not on something else. Either the 
> Commons is 
> > a subproject or it isn't.
> 
> Go read the jakarta docs again ;) It basically saids it is 
> decision to be 
> made by the subproject.
> 
> > If we are going to change the voting rights in the Commons, then we 
> > should bite the bullet and propose it as a top-level ASF Project,
> 
> why?
> 
> > and
> > perhaps ask the XML Commons to join us. The Commons could then have 
> > its own PMC, and parcel out the commit and voting rights any way it 
> > saw fit.
> 
> Why not just sourceforge management scripts because that 
> would mean even less 
> work for this new PMC.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> "Marriage, Friends, Religon -- these are the demons 
> you must slay in order to suceed in business.." 
>                  -- Mr. Burns, The Simpsons 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
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