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From "Sam Ruby" <>
Subject Re: Commons/Avalon [was Re: [Logging] [VOTE] Commons Logging 1.0 Release]
Date Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:26:37 GMT
Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:11, Remy Maucherat wrote:
>> Nice attempt at rewriting history, but I had been using Avalon before you
>> actually joined the project, and I gave up somwhere afterwards. Gump keep
>> detailed records about what changes, but the devlopment of Avalon was even
>> more unstable before (I followed the changes, and none of them appeared to
>> be for any legitimate reason other than cosmetic). So after a while, I
>> decided I would rather rewrite a component rather than depend on
>> org.apache.avalon
> Thats not the question. Previously Avalon was alpha. but when did it became
> stable is the question. Was it before or after the creation of commons? He
> wants people to believe it was after. Like you say - Gump has the history of
> it all and it is easy enough to determine where stability of different things
> was achieved.

Peter, I realize that you assume that I am biased, but I've provided
support for Avalon for quite some time - from uploading daily builds to
consistently advocating stability and providing suggestions, patches, etc
towards getting to the point where more people can depend on it.

Regarding dates - Avalon 4.0 was created in August of 2001.  The period
immediately prior to the release included a (quite understandable) spike in
the amount of interface changes.  Commons was created in March.  I do watch
Gump logs quite closely.

Since Avalon has been released, things have been much better, but as a
general rule subprojects which depend on Avalon components are not provided
with deprecation and backwards compatibility as much as aggressive
migration assistance in the forms of patches, etc.  Note the dates on these
various jars:


If you have any doubt of this, would you like me to try a gump run where
everything was built using the Avalon 4.0 framework?

In short, I support Remy's rendition of events.

A final note: the project that I am most actively involved in (xml-axis)
does use a clutil from jakarta-avalon-excalibur, and at the present time
makes no use of any component from jakarta-commons.

- Sam Ruby

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