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From "Paulo Gaspar" <paulo.gas...@krankikom.de>
Subject RE: Commons/Avalon [was Re: [Logging] [VOTE] Commons Logging 1.0 Release]
Date Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:20:33 GMT
A lot of this talk goes on because we are paying more attention
to the differences than to the synergies.

IMHO the above statement matches much better the last postings
from Remy and Peter than those from Sam - just to mention those
involved in Sam's post.

My understanding is that Sam (like Scott) is just trying to reach
some balance, as usual. That should make it easier for each part
to understand the POV of the other.

I sure hope it does and that we start working on the synergies a
bit better. (Shouldn't be hard to improve on the current
situation.)


Have fun,
Paulo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ruby [mailto:rubys@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:27 PM
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: Commons/Avalon [was Re: [Logging] [VOTE] Commons Logging
> 1.0 Release]
>
>
> Peter Donald wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:11, Remy Maucherat wrote:
> >> Nice attempt at rewriting history, but I had been using Avalon
> before you
> >> actually joined the project, and I gave up somwhere
> afterwards. Gump keep
> >> detailed records about what changes, but the devlopment of
> Avalon was even
> >> more unstable before (I followed the changes, and none of them
> appeared to
> >> be for any legitimate reason other than cosmetic). So after a while, I
> >> decided I would rather rewrite a component rather than depend on
> >> org.apache.avalon
> >
> > Thats not the question. Previously Avalon was alpha. but when
> did it became
> > stable is the question. Was it before or after the creation of
> commons? He
> > wants people to believe it was after. Like you say - Gump has
> the history of
> > it all and it is easy enough to determine where stability of
> different things
> > was achieved.
>
> Peter, I realize that you assume that I am biased, but I've provided
> support for Avalon for quite some time - from uploading daily builds to
> consistently advocating stability and providing suggestions, patches, etc
> towards getting to the point where more people can depend on it.
>
> Regarding dates - Avalon 4.0 was created in August of 2001.  The period
> immediately prior to the release included a (quite
> understandable) spike in
> the amount of interface changes.  Commons was created in March.
> I do watch
> Gump logs quite closely.
>
> Since Avalon has been released, things have been much better, but as a
> general rule subprojects which depend on Avalon components are
> not provided
> with deprecation and backwards compatibility as much as aggressive
> migration assistance in the forms of patches, etc.  Note the
> dates on these
> various jars:
>
>    jakarta-ant/proposal/myrmidon/lib/avalon-excalibur-20020120.jar
>    jakarta-ant/proposal/myrmidon/lib/avalon-framework-20011230.jar
>    jakarta-ant/proposal/myrmidon/lib/avalon-scratchpad-20020120.jar
>    jakarta-ant/proposal/sandbox/junit/lib/avalon-excalibur-20011230.jar
>    jakarta-avalon-cornerstone/lib/avalon-excalibur-20011120.jar
>    jakarta-avalon-cornerstone/lib/avalon-framework-20011110.jar
>    jakarta-avalon-cornerstone/lib/avalon-scratchpad-20011120.jar
>    jakarta-avalon-phoenix/lib/avalon-excalibur-20011120.jar
>    jakarta-avalon-phoenix/lib/avalon-framework-20011115.jar
>    jakarta-avalon-phoenix/lib/avalon-scratchpad-20011122.jar
>    jakarta-james/lib/avalon-excalibur-20011120.jar
>    jakarta-james/lib/avalon-framework-20011115.jar
>    jakarta-james/lib/avalon-jmx-20011230.jar
>    jakarta-james/lib/avalon-scratchpad-20011122.jar
>    xml-cocoon2/lib/core/avalon-excalibur-20020114.jar
>    xml-cocoon2/lib/core/avalon-framework-20020114.jar
>
> If you have any doubt of this, would you like me to try a gump run where
> everything was built using the Avalon 4.0 framework?
>
> In short, I support Remy's rendition of events.
>
> A final note: the project that I am most actively involved in (xml-axis)
> does use a clutil from jakarta-avalon-excalibur, and at the present time
> makes no use of any component from jakarta-commons.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
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