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From Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>
Subject Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11
Date Thu, 07 Jan 2016 13:19:10 GMT
Peter,

On 1/6/16 11:59 AM, Flynn, Peter wrote:
> On 06/01/16 14:18, Christopher Schultz wrote:
> 
>> Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
>> should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
>> and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]
> 
> Tomcat 6 is all that CentOS6 provides in their repos.

Yeah, it's a shame they are about to be *3* versions behind. Sad.

> Sadly we no longer have the luxury of time to build stuff from scratch.

No need to build anything from scratch. Download the tarball and unpack.
Installation is done. You can even run multiple versions side-by-side
and switch back and forth changing nothing but an environment variable.

>> If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.
> 
> Maybe one day.
> 
>> My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
>> way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
>> time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
>> Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
>> (This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).
> 
> Yes, dropping my existing cocoon.war file into the new machine works
> fine, just it's slow and I'm sure the .war file is full of cruft we
> never use.

Slow... how? Slow to start? Slow all over? Tomcat didn't get many more
times more complicated between Tomcat 5 and Tomcat 6. It's not like
upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 (I chose that analogy to
reinforce the idea that Tomcat 6 is oooooold).

>> I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
>> matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
>> a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
>> sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.
> 
> We have 34 directories, many with subdirectories; 47 sitemap.xmaps in
> all. And 15GB of XML text.

Shouldn't be a problem, assuming it's on the same hardware. Tomcat 7 is
a lot more efficient and is missing some of the weirdness of Tomcat 6.
Tomcat 8 is even better. Please reconsider.

>> My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
>> test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
>> everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it is.
> 
> All that is done, fortunately. That part of it was never really a problem.

Well, your original question was "I want to upgrade; any suggestions"?
so I responded with suggestions. If you're already done the work... what
are you actually asking?

>> As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
>> this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
>> make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.
> 
> If I upgrade manually to Tomcat 8 it's going to break all the directory
> changes and control software setups that RH-based systems expect, which
> will create work for my ops and my staff because it will be different
> from all the other Tomcat servers around here. Unfortunately.

I understand. You should petition CentOS to provide newer Tomcat
versions. Amazon Linux's package repos (yum-based, RHEL-compatible) all
support up to Tomcat 8. Supporting only up to Tomcat 6 is ... deeply
disappointing.

> It's a pity that Cocoon has strayed so far from its original task of
> serving XML via XSLT. In fact it's not at all clear to me what problem
> Cocoon 3 is intended to solve. At the moment it looks more like a
> development playground or sandbox for Java architects (in itself a
> valuable thing; I wish there were more of them) than a production
> application solving a business or social requirement. It's basically way
> too much Java and nowhere near enough XML.

-chris

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