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From Jos Snellings <jos.snelli...@upperware.biz>
Subject Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Date Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:44:53 GMT
Nice overview!


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM, gelo1234 <gelo1234@gmail.com> wrote:

> IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid choices:
> XSLT or XQuery.
>
> Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported (by
> XSLTTransformer),
> XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB (
> http://www.exist-db.org)
>
> Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other [1]. XSLT
> has the best support in Cocoon.
> XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate ANY
> Content/Transformation with XML data.
> XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.
>
> Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of XSLT (as
> a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is declarative in
> its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon sitemaps approach best
> suited for very clean/RAD apps.
>
> I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with Cocoon. What
> I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have to stick
> to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to be used
> across different development environments, even in its simplest form
> as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
> Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like features
> and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
> For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.
>
> Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with Wicket) is
> IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
> Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like GWT,
> Vaadin, Errai,....) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
> I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.
>
> Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)
>
> Greetings,
> Greg
>
> [1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language
>
>
>
> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net>
>
>>  Yep,
>> but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to "convert" my
>> own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
>> something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering to
>> move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is hard.
>> If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better off
>> in the long run.
>>
>> I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
>> with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.
>>
>> HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
>>
>>
>> - mika -
>>
>>
>> 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>>
>>  HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
>> HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>>
>>  The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but
>> whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>>
>>  If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
>> e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
>> REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
>> generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>>
>>  Greetings,
>>  -Greg
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net>
>>
>>> Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are
>>> still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some
>>> sort of governmental offices using their own versions..
>>> We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>>>
>>> http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
>>>
>>> - mika -
>>>
>>>
>>> 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>>>
>>>  The only thing I wonder about is...
>>>>
>>>> Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
>>>>  So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
>>>> and how did you accomplish this.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Robby
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net]
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>>>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>>>
>>>> Ok,
>>>> thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>>>
>>>> - mika -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah,
>>>>>> I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to
2002
>>>>>> or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
>>>>>> actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
>>>>>> Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right.
It
>>>>>> actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems
to
>>>>>> be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.
>>>>>>
>>>>> "under development" with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]
>>>>>
>>>>>  But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
>>>>> task.
>>>>> Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
>>>>> XML side if the job.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
>>>>>> to start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
>>>>>> development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
>>>>>> And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>>>>
>>>>>  18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about some XForms implementation like this
>>>>>>>> http://www.betterform.de?
>>>>>>>> Sounds promising..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called "Facts". They
are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain.
-- Thomas Hobbes
 <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomashobb118630.html>

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