cocoon-users mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Mika M Lehtonen <m...@digikartta.net>
Subject Re: from Cforms to Wicket
Date Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:09:32 GMT
http://wshager.blogspot.nl/2013/02/abandoning-hope-and-xforms.html

18.2.2013 18:44, Jos Snellings kirjoitti:
> Nice overview!
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM, gelo1234 <gelo1234@gmail.com 
> <mailto:gelo1234@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid
>     choices: XSLT or XQuery.
>
>     Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported
>     (by XSLTTransformer),
>     XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB
>     (http://www.exist-db.org)
>
>     Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other
>     [1]. XSLT has the best support in Cocoon.
>     XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate
>     ANY Content/Transformation with XML data.
>     XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.
>
>     Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of
>     XSLT (as a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is
>     declarative in its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon
>     sitemaps approach best suited for very clean/RAD apps.
>
>     I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with
>     Cocoon. What I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have
>     to stick
>     to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to
>     be used across different development environments, even in its
>     simplest form
>     as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
>     Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like
>     features and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
>     For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.
>
>     Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with
>     Wicket) is IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
>     Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like
>     GWT, Vaadin, Errai,....) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
>     I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.
>
>     Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)
>
>     Greetings,
>     Greg
>
>     [1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
>     <http://www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf>
>     [2]
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language
>
>
>
>     2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
>     <mailto:mika@digikartta.net>>
>
>         Yep,
>         but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to
>         "convert" my own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5)
>         forms. I was looking something to replace Cforms (not just
>         plain XSLT). I am also considering to move to C3 because as I
>         stated earlier, developing without tools is hard. If I could
>         take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better
>         off in the long run.
>
>         I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has
>         been done with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real
>         option.
>
>         HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.
>
>
>         - mika -
>
>
>         18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
>>         HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
>>         HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.
>>
>>         The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML,
>>         but whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.
>>
>>         If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support
>>         it, just use e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced
>>         Sitemap Matchers OR in REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP
>>         Headers return different Page that generate a different
>>         Content (with XSLT) for IE8.
>>
>>         Greetings,
>>         -Greg
>>
>>
>>         2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen <mika@digikartta.net
>>         <mailto:mika@digikartta.net>>
>>
>>             Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9.
>>             There are still lot of people using IE8 or even older
>>             browser + lot of people in some sort of governmental
>>             offices using their own versions..
>>             We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.
>>
>>             http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
>>             <http://people.mozilla.com/%7Eprouget/ie9/>
>>
>>             - mika -
>>
>>
>>             18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:
>>
>>                 The only thing I wonder about is...
>>
>>                 Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5
>>                 serialization for all I know.  So does someone using
>>                 Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and
>>                 how did you accomplish this.
>>
>>                 Cheers,
>>                 Robby
>>
>>                 -----Original Message-----
>>                 From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:mika@digikartta.net
>>                 <mailto:mika@digikartta.net>]
>>                 Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
>>                 To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>>                 <mailto:users@cocoon.apache.org>
>>                 Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket
>>
>>                 Ok,
>>                 thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.
>>
>>                 - mika -
>>
>>
>>                 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
>>
>>                     On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>>                         Yeah,
>>                         I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms
>>                         sites are dated back to 2002
>>                         or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having
>>                         glorious future behind..
>>
>>                         This betterForm still sounded proper for my
>>                         purposes because it
>>                         actually implements server-side approache of
>>                         Xforms. So I could use
>>                         Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms,
>>                         if I understood right. It
>>                         actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a
>>                         difference that it seems to
>>                         be under development taking contemporary
>>                         challenges into account.
>>
>>                     "under development" with latest release 4.1
>>                     dating 1 year back [1]
>>
>>                         But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?
>>
>>                     It depends on you, and on how much effort do you
>>                     want to put on this
>>                     task.
>>                     Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will
>>                     help in you in the
>>                     XML side if the job.
>>
>>                         I would like to get familiar with C3 if I
>>                         only could figure out how
>>                         to start.
>>
>>                         The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not
>>                         having proper
>>                         development tools to use. I ended up writing
>>                         files with Notepad++.
>>                         And I never realized how to do debugging..
>>
>>                     [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/
>>
>>                         18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò
>>                         kirjoitti:
>>
>>                             On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>>
>>                                 How about some XForms implementation
>>                                 like this
>>                                 http://www.betterform.de?
>>                                 Sounds promising..
>>
>>                             I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...
>>
>>                             Regards.
>>
>>
>>                 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>                 To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>                 users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>                 <mailto:users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org>
>>                 For additional commands, e-mail:
>>                 users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>                 <mailto:users-help@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>                 To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>                 users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>                 <mailto:users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org>
>>                 For additional commands, e-mail:
>>                 users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>                 <mailto:users-help@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>             ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>             To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>             users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>>             <mailto:users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org>
>>             For additional commands, e-mail:
>>             users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>             <mailto:users-help@cocoon.apache.org>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called "Facts". 
> They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain.
> -- Thomas Hobbes


Mime
View raw message