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From: Bart Remmerie <remmerie@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Is cocoon dead ?
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:20:32 +0100
To: "users@cocoon.apache.org" <users@cocoon.apache.org>

Just being critical & analytical: where die we observe the big drop in commu=
nity activity ?  Switch to Maven & move from 2.1.11 to next version ? (just a=
 guess) =3D> What can we learn from this ?

Bart Remmerie

Op 11-nov.-2012 om 18:13 heeft Michael M=C3=BCller <michael.mueller@mueller-=
bruehl.de> het volgende geschreven:

> Francesco,
>=20
> I observe this list for years now (since I started using Cocon 2.1). And I=
 recongnized some activities, especially from you. But since a couple of yea=
rs I'm using a) a different technology (JSF) for my web pages and b) I'm wai=
ting for Cocoon 3.0 to become ready. Even there are some acitivies, it seems=
 to be a never ending story.
>=20
> I guess it would be helpfull to schedule some dates for beta and release. I=
f it is so much to do right now, maybe this version might be feature-reduced=
 and some of the planned features will be postponed to a version 3.1? Otherw=
ise I'm afraid this project is dead - even though there are some activities.=

>=20
> If your horse is dead, don't try to ride it anymore. Change the horse. (si=
milar to Dakota saying)
>=20
> Herzliche Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe - Best Regards,
> Michael M=C3=BCller
>=20
> Am 10.11.2012 14:00, schrieb Francesco Chicchiricc=C3=B2:
>> Hi all,
>> I think e-mails like the one below are not helpful at all.
>>=20
>> First of all, even though most of critical aspects of our current
>> situation are reported, some things are barely wrong:
>>=20
>>> down the same page you find the next most recent news is a year and a
>>> half old
>> Open your favorite browser at http://cocoon.apache.org/ and read that
>> latest two news are dated July 2nd and March 3rd 2012
>>=20
>>> When people ask about C2.x (and the latest released version is 2.2) nobo=
dy wants to talk about it (except others desperate for information about som=
e aspect of C2);
>> Just browse http://cocoon.markmail.org and judge by yourself whether
>> this is true or not.
>>=20
>>> There are no books on anything later than 2.1, which is about a decade o=
ld.
>> Just point again your favorite browser to
>> http://www.apache.org/dist/cocoon/ and you will see that Cocoon 2.1.11
>> was released on Jan 14th 2008.
>>=20
>>> Perhaps 80% of the official documentation is either TBW or skeletal, and=
 the only people who know the inside of Cocoon well enough to complete it ke=
ep asking others to do that.
>> This is absolutely false for C2.X and only partially true for C3.
>>=20
>> Beware, I am not stating that the Cocoon status is healthy, new releases
>> with bugfixes and new features are regularly made available and
>> documentation is accurate and complete.
>> I am only trying to look at the Cocoon project for what it is *today*: a
>> project with:
>>  * very few active committers
>>  * almost no occasional contributors
>>  * still a lot of interested people: most because they are running an
>> ancient Cocoon version, few because they've heard of Cocoon only recently=

>>=20
>> In my opinion, a dead project is a project in which no one is
>> interested, and Cocoon is not (yet?) that far.
>>=20
>> Remembering that Cocoon - like as any other project at ASF - is
>> exclusively made up by volunteer contribution, I'd rather start a
>> [DISCUSS] thread to see what needs to be done and who is available to
>> help instead of such acid and unproductive e-mails.
>>=20
>> WDYT?
>>=20
>> Regards.
>>=20
>> On 08/11/2012 15:10, Mark H. Wood wrote:
>>> I'm not surprised at all.  Looking 3cm. down the same page you find
>>> the next most recent news is a year and a half old.  When people ask
>>> about C2.x (and the latest released version is 2.2) nobody wants to
>>> talk about it (except others desperate for information about some
>>> aspect of C2); one is told to use C3.  C3 has been alpha for perhaps
>>> two years -- there is as yet no beta, let alone a release.  There are
>>> no books on anything later than 2.1, which is about a decade old.
>>> Perhaps 80% of the official documentation is either TBW or skeletal,
>>> and the only people who know the inside of Cocoon well enough to
>>> complete it keep asking others to do that.  Bugs with patches attached
>>> languish for years.  Seemingly everyone using Cocoon is running a
>>> unique local version with scads of patches that are passed around like
>>> ancient lore.
>>>=20
>>> Why would anyone think Cocoon is dead?
>=20
>=20
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