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From Michael Müller <michael.muel...@mueller-bruehl.de>
Subject Re: Is cocoon dead ?
Date Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:46:48 GMT
...Activities for Cocoon 3 are much to little...

Missing 3 in my contribution. Just for clarification.

Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards,
Michael Müller

Am 11.11.2012 21:42, schrieb Michael Müller:
> Bart,
>
> If you guess, Maven is a problem, I second you. Maven might be great 
> from the developer's view. But a poor (cocoon) user perfers just a 
> simple setup. Thus Maven might scare users - and it did, when I tried 
> the new version apx. 5 or 6 years ago.
>
> But from my point of view, tinker on a new realease for such a long 
> time, is the really problem. Cocoon 2 is mainly in maintenance state. 
> Some users still run it, thus there are some activities. Activities 
> for Cocoon are much to little. Neither beta version nor a release is 
> on the horizon. If this can't be changed soon, I'll predict Cocoon (3) 
> to die.
>
> Just my 2 cents...
>
> Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards,
> Michael Müller
>
> Am 11.11.2012 21:20, schrieb Bart Remmerie:
>> Just being critical & analytical: where die we observe the big drop 
>> in community activity ? Switch to Maven & move from 2.1.11 to next 
>> version ? (just a guess) => What can we learn from this ?
>>
>> Bart Remmerie
>>
>> Op 11-nov.-2012 om 18:13 heeft Michael Müller 
>> <michael.mueller@mueller-bruehl.de> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>>> Francesco,
>>>
>>> I observe this list for years now (since I started using Cocon 2.1). 
>>> And I recongnized some activities, especially from you. But since a 
>>> couple of years I'm using a) a different technology (JSF) for my web 
>>> pages and b) I'm waiting for Cocoon 3.0 to become ready. Even there 
>>> are some acitivies, it seems to be a never ending story.
>>>
>>> I guess it would be helpfull to schedule some dates for beta and 
>>> release. If it is so much to do right now, maybe this version might 
>>> be feature-reduced and some of the planned features will be 
>>> postponed to a version 3.1? Otherwise I'm afraid this project is 
>>> dead - even though there are some activities.
>>>
>>> If your horse is dead, don't try to ride it anymore. Change the 
>>> horse. (similar to Dakota saying)
>>>
>>> Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards,
>>> Michael Müller
>>>
>>> Am 10.11.2012 14:00, schrieb Francesco Chicchiriccò:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I think e-mails like the one below are not helpful at all.
>>>>
>>>> First of all, even though most of critical aspects of our current
>>>> situation are reported, some things are barely wrong:
>>>>
>>>>> down the same page you find the next most recent news is a year and a
>>>>> half old
>>>> Open your favorite browser at http://cocoon.apache.org/ and read that
>>>> latest two news are dated July 2nd and March 3rd 2012
>>>>
>>>>> When people ask about C2.x (and the latest released version is 
>>>>> 2.2) nobody wants to talk about it (except others desperate for 
>>>>> information about some aspect of C2);
>>>> Just browse http://cocoon.markmail.org and judge by yourself whether
>>>> this is true or not.
>>>>
>>>>> There are no books on anything later than 2.1, which is about a 
>>>>> decade old.
>>>> Just point again your favorite browser to
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/cocoon/ and you will see that Cocoon 2.1.11
>>>> was released on Jan 14th 2008.
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps 80% of the official documentation is either TBW or 
>>>>> skeletal, and the only people who know the inside of Cocoon well 
>>>>> enough to complete it keep asking others to do that.
>>>> This is absolutely false for C2.X and only partially true for C3.
>>>>
>>>> Beware, I am not stating that the Cocoon status is healthy, new 
>>>> releases
>>>> with bugfixes and new features are regularly made available and
>>>> documentation is accurate and complete.
>>>> I am only trying to look at the Cocoon project for what it is 
>>>> *today*: a
>>>> project with:
>>>>   * very few active committers
>>>>   * almost no occasional contributors
>>>>   * still a lot of interested people: most because they are running an
>>>> ancient Cocoon version, few because they've heard of Cocoon only 
>>>> recently
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion, a dead project is a project in which no one is
>>>> interested, and Cocoon is not (yet?) that far.
>>>>
>>>> Remembering that Cocoon - like as any other project at ASF - is
>>>> exclusively made up by volunteer contribution, I'd rather start a
>>>> [DISCUSS] thread to see what needs to be done and who is available to
>>>> help instead of such acid and unproductive e-mails.
>>>>
>>>> WDYT?
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>> On 08/11/2012 15:10, Mark H. Wood wrote:
>>>>> I'm not surprised at all.  Looking 3cm. down the same page you find
>>>>> the next most recent news is a year and a half old.  When people ask
>>>>> about C2.x (and the latest released version is 2.2) nobody wants to
>>>>> talk about it (except others desperate for information about some
>>>>> aspect of C2); one is told to use C3.  C3 has been alpha for perhaps
>>>>> two years -- there is as yet no beta, let alone a release.  There are
>>>>> no books on anything later than 2.1, which is about a decade old.
>>>>> Perhaps 80% of the official documentation is either TBW or skeletal,
>>>>> and the only people who know the inside of Cocoon well enough to
>>>>> complete it keep asking others to do that.  Bugs with patches 
>>>>> attached
>>>>> languish for years.  Seemingly everyone using Cocoon is running a
>>>>> unique local version with scads of patches that are passed around 
>>>>> like
>>>>> ancient lore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would anyone think Cocoon is dead?
>>>
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>
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