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From Michael Müller <michael.muel...@mueller-bruehl.de>
Subject Re: Is cocoon dead ?
Date Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:42:06 GMT
Bart,

If you guess, Maven is a problem, I second you. Maven might be great 
from the developer's view. But a poor (cocoon) user perfers just a 
simple setup. Thus Maven might scare users - and it did, when I tried 
the new version apx. 5 or 6 years ago.

But from my point of view, tinker on a new realease for such a long 
time, is the really problem. Cocoon 2 is mainly in maintenance state. 
Some users still run it, thus there are some activities. Activities for 
Cocoon are much to little. Neither beta version nor a release is on the 
horizon. If this can't be changed soon, I'll predict Cocoon (3) to die.

Just my 2 cents...

Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards,
Michael Müller

Am 11.11.2012 21:20, schrieb Bart Remmerie:
> Just being critical & analytical: where die we observe the big drop in community
activity ?  Switch to Maven & move from 2.1.11 to next version ? (just a guess) =>
What can we learn from this ?
>
> Bart Remmerie
>
> Op 11-nov.-2012 om 18:13 heeft Michael Müller <michael.mueller@mueller-bruehl.de>
het volgende geschreven:
>
>> Francesco,
>>
>> I observe this list for years now (since I started using Cocon 2.1). And I recongnized
some activities, especially from you. But since a couple of years I'm using a) a different
technology (JSF) for my web pages and b) I'm waiting for Cocoon 3.0 to become ready. Even
there are some acitivies, it seems to be a never ending story.
>>
>> I guess it would be helpfull to schedule some dates for beta and release. If it is
so much to do right now, maybe this version might be feature-reduced and some of the planned
features will be postponed to a version 3.1? Otherwise I'm afraid this project is dead - even
though there are some activities.
>>
>> If your horse is dead, don't try to ride it anymore. Change the horse. (similar to
Dakota saying)
>>
>> Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards,
>> Michael Müller
>>
>> Am 10.11.2012 14:00, schrieb Francesco Chicchiriccò:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I think e-mails like the one below are not helpful at all.
>>>
>>> First of all, even though most of critical aspects of our current
>>> situation are reported, some things are barely wrong:
>>>
>>>> down the same page you find the next most recent news is a year and a
>>>> half old
>>> Open your favorite browser at http://cocoon.apache.org/ and read that
>>> latest two news are dated July 2nd and March 3rd 2012
>>>
>>>> When people ask about C2.x (and the latest released version is 2.2) nobody
wants to talk about it (except others desperate for information about some aspect of C2);
>>> Just browse http://cocoon.markmail.org and judge by yourself whether
>>> this is true or not.
>>>
>>>> There are no books on anything later than 2.1, which is about a decade old.
>>> Just point again your favorite browser to
>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/cocoon/ and you will see that Cocoon 2.1.11
>>> was released on Jan 14th 2008.
>>>
>>>> Perhaps 80% of the official documentation is either TBW or skeletal, and
the only people who know the inside of Cocoon well enough to complete it keep asking others
to do that.
>>> This is absolutely false for C2.X and only partially true for C3.
>>>
>>> Beware, I am not stating that the Cocoon status is healthy, new releases
>>> with bugfixes and new features are regularly made available and
>>> documentation is accurate and complete.
>>> I am only trying to look at the Cocoon project for what it is *today*: a
>>> project with:
>>>   * very few active committers
>>>   * almost no occasional contributors
>>>   * still a lot of interested people: most because they are running an
>>> ancient Cocoon version, few because they've heard of Cocoon only recently
>>>
>>> In my opinion, a dead project is a project in which no one is
>>> interested, and Cocoon is not (yet?) that far.
>>>
>>> Remembering that Cocoon - like as any other project at ASF - is
>>> exclusively made up by volunteer contribution, I'd rather start a
>>> [DISCUSS] thread to see what needs to be done and who is available to
>>> help instead of such acid and unproductive e-mails.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> On 08/11/2012 15:10, Mark H. Wood wrote:
>>>> I'm not surprised at all.  Looking 3cm. down the same page you find
>>>> the next most recent news is a year and a half old.  When people ask
>>>> about C2.x (and the latest released version is 2.2) nobody wants to
>>>> talk about it (except others desperate for information about some
>>>> aspect of C2); one is told to use C3.  C3 has been alpha for perhaps
>>>> two years -- there is as yet no beta, let alone a release.  There are
>>>> no books on anything later than 2.1, which is about a decade old.
>>>> Perhaps 80% of the official documentation is either TBW or skeletal,
>>>> and the only people who know the inside of Cocoon well enough to
>>>> complete it keep asking others to do that.  Bugs with patches attached
>>>> languish for years.  Seemingly everyone using Cocoon is running a
>>>> unique local version with scads of patches that are passed around like
>>>> ancient lore.
>>>>
>>>> Why would anyone think Cocoon is dead?
>>
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