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From Jeroen Reijn <j.re...@onehippo.com>
Subject Re: Lowering in amount of users' posts?
Date Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:51:06 GMT
I too agree with Robby on a lot of points.

My thoughts on this are that Cocoon 2.1 was sort of getting into it's 
maintainance phase where no real functionality was added anymore. There 
is already so much functionality in there! As far as I know there are 
still many people working with Cocoon 2.1 these days. Cocoon developers 
still pick up patches from JIRA and commit them into the 2.1 Branch.

As a project you want to improve and sometimes this means change. 
Therefor I think it was a good move to use Spring as a base for Cocoon 
2.2. Spring itself has a huge community and it could have attracted a 
lot of new people to the Cocoon project. If you already have Spring 
knowledge, the learning curve would have been less then it was before.

As a side note I do want to mention that it has never been necessary to 
upgrade to 2.2 (at least I have not seen any issues that required me to 
move). Cocoon 2.1 is also still supported. If you really want to use 
Spring and like the 'blocks' concept you *could* make the switch.

With Cocoon 3 I see an interesting shift in less configuration and more 
programming. I personally like this improvement and I know quite some 
people that disliked Cocoon 2.1 for it's overhead on XML configuration 
files.

In short. I don't think that less activity on the user list means that 
people have less interest for Cocoon itself, even though some people 
might have moved on to other projects, Cocoon itself is still in use by 
a lot of people and if you have any issues please let us know.

Jeroen


On 04/19/2010 10:44 AM, Andre Juffer wrote:
> I pretty much agree with what Robby just wrote. There are certain
> differences of course between Cocoon 2.2 and earlier versions, which may
> be somewhat difficult to grasp. Maven is a standard build tool and it is
> well supported by Netbeans and other similar tools. It is easy to
> construct an cocoon application with Netbeans. Also, the use of Spring
> is a logical choice. It would takes a few days to learn, but it is worth
> the effort. If you already know Cocoon 2.1, the switch to Cocoon 2.2 is
> not really hard (again, takes a few days). All in all, as Robby
> indicated, it may take you a week or so to convert to C2.2.
>
> The only concern I have is the level of documentation in C2.2 and also
> C3. On the other hand, some of documentation that was already available
> under Cocoon 2.1 that is also applicable to C2.2 (like
> flowscript/jxtemplate) could (should) have been transferred to C2.2.
>
> I wish the development of cocoon 2.2 or cocoon 3 would continue. With
> the recent emphasis on RESTful web services, I believe that cocoon 2.2 /
> 3 could become a major player in that direction. All the tools one would
> require for a RESTful web application are essentially available. Many
> representations (Json, XML, txt, etc) of resources can easily be
> prepared with XSLT. In that respect, I would claim that Cocoon was ahead
> of its time, because the ability to generate various representations
> from the same source (usually XML) was always seen as one of Cocoon's
> strengths. Also, the introduction of blocks in C2.2 is quite compatible
> with the way of thinking of RESTful URIs.
>
> So, in my opinion, Cocoon is a great tool and we should continue to use
> it. And we should start ask questions again. Questions means interest
> and interest stimulates further development.
>
> Best,
> André
>
> Robby Pelssers wrote:
>>
>> Maybe the learning curve got a bit steeper for Cocoon2.2 but I
>> disagree that this is inherent to Cocoon itself. Cocoon2.2 still
>> allows you to do use the sitemap as before and building a complete
>> webapp with optional usage of
>>
>> - Flowscript/jxtemplate
>>
>> - Cocoon forms
>>
>> - Xslt
>>
>> - …
>>
>> without ever having to write a single line of Java.
>>
>>
>>
>> It took me 1 week to completely make the switch from Cocoon2.1.11 to
>> Cocoon2.2. And building blocks and wiring them up (dependencies) in
>> the servlet-context.xml is really simple.
>>
>>
>>
>> The switch to Maven is a generic tendency seen in all open source
>> projects, so not only Cocoon…. Who will tell when we all switch to
>> Craddle (and have to learn yet another build tool and programming
>> language Groovy).
>>
>>
>>
>> And the switch from Avalon to Spring was also a complete logical step…
>> it has become the de facto standard for doing dependency injection and
>> it comes bundled with a lot of usefull integration classes for most
>> frameworks (Castor, XStream, Quartz, …) and AOP. And for the ones who
>> still think the only decent JVM language is Java… think twice.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
>>
>>
>>
>> If you ask me this discussion is more about people resisting change in
>> Software development in general because they have to adapt (again) to
>> new technologies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Robby Pelssers
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Andreas Kuehne [mailto:akuehne@yahoo.com]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:40 PM
>> *To:* users@cocoon.apache.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Lowering in amount of users' posts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> for me it's also true :
>> Didn't see any real need to got to 2.2. or beyond ! 2.1 does anything
>> for me, huge apps with heavy load as well as quick solutions.
>>
>> To the major problem of cocoon is : It's ready ! No burning needs for
>> new functionality, no major tasks on the todo list. Fiddeling with
>> another base framework ( spring instead of avalon ) or build tool (
>> maven vs. ant ) doesn't make any user more happy.
>>
>> I can do what I need any van even impress competitors with speed and
>> performance. Maintainance mode or not, I'm happy with it !
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>
>

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