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From Andre Juffer <andre.juf...@oulu.fi>
Subject Re: Lowering in amount of users' posts?
Date Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:37:21 GMT
Robby Pelssers wrote:
> There is no real need to move ... totally agree.  But once you become familiar with 
> - agile development
> - unit-testing  (junit & spring-test)
> - dependency injection (Spring)
> - AOP
> - Cocoon-spring-configurator
> - reloading class loader (RCL)
>
> You might finally see the benefits from switching to newer versions.
>
> I've been working completely solo for the past 2 years on several Cocoon modules (which
could be compared with 1 application) and most of the times I can show incremental results
using 1 week iterations. I do small new released and receive immediate feedback from the customer.
>
> I actually have been combining/integrating
> - YUI2.7 -> YUI3 
> - Xstream
> - Axis
> - Quartz Job scheduler
> - ...
> into my modules without much difficulties and that's due to the complete new set of technologies
at hand.
>
> If there is a real need to get some real live use case  (instead of hellow world) elaborated
I'm more than happy to contribute to a demo application which can be checked out to view the
sources and explain step-by-step how you can setup your cocoon-app.
>
> Anybody who has a nice suggestion?
>   

How about the following. The domain-driven design (DDD), my personal 
favorite,  community has an example (in Java) available based on the 
cargo shipping domain. Have a look at

http://www.domaindrivendesign.org/node/42

We could arrange for combining this demo project with cocoon as the 
layer between the UI and the domain.

> Robby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: André Davignon [mailto:andre.davignon@free.fr] 
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:51 AM
> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Lowering in amount of users' posts?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Remember :
>
> Putting "Based on Maven and Spring" on your homepage sounds much better 
> at the moment than "Based on Ant and Avalon" 
> (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox//cocoon-users/200902.mbox/%3Cgm9hos$cn6$1@ger.gmane.org%3E).
>
> Who cares ?
>
> And what about XSP ? Which was a fast and reliable way to build webapps. Remember "XSP
is evil" (just find out the post ;-) ).
> As pointed out, there seems to be a real gap between real world needs and developpers'
wishes to create the silver bullet (take a look at the google cache).
>
> No need to move to Cocoon 2 ou 3 or 10, other frameworks do the job. Or come back to
Jsp / servlets
>
> Best wishes,
>
> André
>
>
>
>   
>> Ok.
>>
>> I have to agree on the documentation issue.  This certainly hasn't approved and for
usage of sitemap components I still tend to use the Cocoon2.1.x docs.  
>>
>> I do believe as well that Cocoon forms in combination with flowscript was state of
the art back then but other frameworks are doing an equally good or even better job nowadays.

>>
>> Cocoon is still my preferred tool to do xml transformations but if you want to build
highly dynamic interactive webapps you might as well take a look around for other available
options.  But this is where Cocoon3.0 comes into play...
>>
>> Instead of building your complete webapp with the Cocoon framework you can now choose
your preferred framework (GWT, Wicket, -> http://java-source.net/open-source/web-frameworks
) and outsource the xml stuff to Cocoon3 by just using the Java API.  Also check out Reinhard's
effort for howto  http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
>>
>> And I expect I'll make the switch to Cocoon3 over the next year because of this reason.
>>
>> On the other hand the first implementations of XPROC are available which resembles
a lot what cocoon has to offer...    
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robby
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andre Juffer [mailto:andre.juffer@oulu.fi] 
>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:45 AM
>> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Lowering in amount of users' posts?
>>
>> I pretty much agree with what Robby just wrote. There are certain 
>> differences of course between Cocoon 2.2 and earlier versions, which may 
>> be somewhat difficult to grasp. Maven is a standard build tool and it is 
>> well supported by Netbeans and other similar tools. It is easy to 
>> construct an cocoon application with Netbeans. Also, the use of Spring 
>> is a logical choice. It would takes a few days to learn, but it is worth 
>> the effort. If you already know Cocoon 2.1, the switch to Cocoon 2.2 is 
>> not really hard (again, takes a few days). All in all, as Robby 
>> indicated, it may take you a week or so to convert to C2.2.
>>
>> The only concern I have is the level of documentation in C2.2 and also 
>> C3. On the other hand, some of documentation that was already available 
>> under Cocoon 2.1 that is also applicable to C2.2 (like 
>> flowscript/jxtemplate) could (should) have been transferred to C2.2.
>>
>> I wish the development of cocoon 2.2 or cocoon 3 would continue. With 
>> the recent emphasis on RESTful web services, I believe that cocoon 2.2 / 
>> 3 could become a major player in that direction. All the tools one would 
>> require for a RESTful web application are essentially available. Many 
>> representations (Json, XML, txt, etc) of resources can easily be 
>> prepared with XSLT. In that respect, I would claim that Cocoon was ahead 
>> of its time, because the ability to generate various representations 
>> from the same source (usually XML) was always seen as one of Cocoon's 
>> strengths. Also, the introduction of blocks in C2.2 is quite compatible 
>> with the way of thinking of RESTful URIs.
>>
>> So, in my opinion, Cocoon is a great tool and we should continue to use 
>> it. And we should start ask questions again. Questions means interest 
>> and interest stimulates further development.
>>
>> Best,
>> André
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
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>   


-- 
Andre H. Juffer              | Phone: +358-8-553 1161
Biocenter Oulu and           | Fax: +358-8-553-1141
Department of Biochemistry   | Email: andre.juffer@oulu.fi
University of Oulu, Finland  | WWW: www.biochem.oulu.fi/Biocomputing/
StruBioCat                   | WWW: www.strubiocat.oulu.fi
NordProt                     | WWW: www.nordprot.org
Triacle Biocomputing         | WWW: www.triacle-bc.com


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