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From "Derek Hohls" <>
Subject Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
Date Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:45:13 GMT
Do you want the short reply or the long reply :)
There needs to be room in the Cocoon universe for 2.1 users as
well as 2.2 users.
This is the classic issue isn't it!?  Certainly we are beset by the 
"culture of the new" at present; where "new == better" - be it
cellphones, politicians, or computer languages.

I agree from a *marketing* perspective that putting buzzwords 
on your site is a way to attract new users - especially those who
might otherwise be going to .NET or Ruby-on-Rails - not that I mean 
to  imply the developers are doing this for that reason alone.  

However, there is also such a thing as a "legacy" application; 
while you (or others) might think that languages such as COBOL,
FORTRAN, Pascal etc are "dead", I can almost guarantee you 
there are millions of lines of code in those tools being written
or maintained every year (C# notwithstanding). 

There are many of us who have been using Cocoon for many 
years now, and I would really hate to think we'll just be dumped 
because some new ideas or support frameworks have emerged.
Personally, I'd also like to see the documentation develop and
mature a little more - there are certainly *lots* of "getting started"
questions in the ML about 2.2 - and a book or half would also 
provide some reassurance that a solid new ship is ready for all
types of sailors.

So yes, I am prepared to learn - no doubt I will have to - but it
does not yet feel the right time for what appears to require a 
significant upheaval.

My 2(non-Euro)c 


>>> On 2009/02/03 at 03:44, in message <gm9hos$cn6$>,
Andreas Hartmann <> wrote:
Klortho schrieb:
> dhohls wrote:
>> That's a little harsh - although my impression is that C2.2 is
>> perhaps a step sideways in terms of how many things are
>> done... but that's just an impression from reading all the 
>> mailing list Q&A.  So far, I have not needed to take the plunge.
> Yes, you're right ... too harsh.
> I'm really just a newbie, but speaking as one, I think that 2.1 was a
> nicer experience out of the gate, which is pretty damn important for
> application to gain wider acceptance.

BTW, there's also a different viewpoint:

<Lenya community hat>

For us, as a project depending on Cocoon, it is crucial that Cocoon 
doesn't cling to "dead" (as in language) concepts and frameworks as XSP

and Avalon, however proven and stable they may be. To attract new 
community members, it's very important to keep looking beyond one's own

nose and stay in touch with current trends in the Java world. Putting 
"Based on Maven and Spring" on your homepage sounds much better at the

moment than "Based on Ant and Avalon". And we shouldn't be afraid of 
learning * familiar concepts often seem to be easier to understand
new ones.

</Lenya community hat>

Just my $0.02.

-- Andreas

Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH 
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01

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