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From Ken Starks <>
Subject Re: RCL. Help needed with the rapid class reloader
Date Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:16:52 GMT
Torsten Curdt wrote:
> Ken, I am sorry but my patience is running out here. These are all 
> very basic Eclipse questions - not Cocoon ones.
> Please follow the instructions above. They should get you there. If 
> you can't get your Eclipse setup to work properly I suggest to check 
> with the Eclipse community or just ask a fellow developer. Good luck!
> cheers
> -- 
> Torsten
My patience is also running out. Firstly, concerning your anger that I 
'cannot get my Eclipse setup yo work properly',
may I remind you that it was you who steered me down the eclipse path 
while I wished to see things working
from a command-line approach. Actually, now that you have told me that 
RCL works on
target *.class files, I had it working already. (see an earlier post).

As I also mentioned, I have not yet seen it respond to an edit of, which
which Grzegorz Kossakowski demonstrated in his screencast. That is why I 
thought there was still a problem
with RCL.

But the deeper reason that my patience is running out--with the Cocoon 
team as a whole, not you in particular--is
because of the higher and higher entry barriers that potential users of 
Cocoon need to  cross. The whole ethos
of the project is 'separation of concerns', so it should strive to be 
appealing to a much larger constituency than
java programmers.

As cocoon 2.2 stands, and the way it seems to be moving, you are 
unwelcome unless you have already learned
java, eclipse, and maven. Of course you _should_ be unwelcome, in that 
case, to the _developer's_ group
or mailing list. Nearly everyone should be very welcome indeed to become 
an ordinary user.

What about the ordinary developer who wants a dynamic website, but who 
is a specialism is XML,
XSL,  SQL, CSS,  Javascript, or  Graphic design? or audio or video ?
They cannot join in with any confidence, unless they have a java expert, 
a maven expert, an eclipse expert
to run to.

Or, a friendly user-group, and a friendly wiki with tutorials and  
screencasts at all levels, where they won't
get either a flea in the ear or sarcasm.

I am one of those non-java-speaking developers, and my area of expertise 
is in training and education. I
already like cocoon, so you are preaching to the converted. David Legg 
wrote in a different thread:

Hi Grek,

<snip something Grzegorz Kossakowski had written>

Aha!  Well spotted ;-)

>> I'll try to fix this issue ASAP.

Thanks.  As this is may be someone's very first close encounter with 
Cocoon 2.2 we want to set a good example.

David Legg

   The question is: "will it be their _very_last_  encounter with Cocoon 
2,2 ?"

Bye for now,


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