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From "warrell harries" <>
Subject Re: Cocoon database access strategy
Date Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:17:21 GMT
I realise my postings can sound a pompous so I reckon Ard was just saying
"Different Horses for Different Courses" but using Hippo's and the Dutch
Masters as a surreal juxtaposition

On 25/06/07, Derek Hohls <> wrote:
>  Maybe its because I am not Dutch.... but I really
> do not get this story -  anyone care to explain?
> >>> "Ard Schrijvers" <> 2007/06/25 12:27 PM >>>
> Claude: "Is like the story of the hippo."
> Reuben: "I'm not familiar with that story."
> Claude: "The hippopotamus, he is not born going, 'Cool bean, I am a
> hippo.' No way, Jose. So he tried to paint the stripe on himself to be like
> the, uh, the zebra, bet he fool no one. And then he tried to put the spot on
> his skin to be like the leopard, but everyone know he is a hippo. SO at
> certain pont, he look himself in the mirror, an he just say, 'Hey, I am a
> hippopotamus, and there is nothing I can do about it.' And as soon as he
> accepts this, he live life happy. Happy as a hippo. You understand?"
> Reuben: "I'm gonna kill you!"
> Lisa: "Reuben! No, Reuben!"
> As long as everybody is happy :-)
> ps movie "Along came polly"
> Hi Ard,
> I understand your comic sarcasm and I think I know where you are coming
> from ;-) In the final analysis, it seems to depend on where you place the
> centre of gravity of your application at the o! utset. If you start building
> an Object based system and then add persistence you are probably always
> going to have to write business logic in Java and use an OR framework to map
> this onto a a relational DB. However, most Enterprise systems start with an
> ER Model . Various hybrid systems grow around the central DB so it makes
> sense to gravitate toward the Enterprise DB for all sorts of engineering and
> political reasons. One size does not fit all and in the world of CMS I can
> imagine that your approach works for you and your customers. I was just
> trying to advise those (possibly the majority0 of Cocoon developers who are
> trying to develop relatively small internal Web-applications that work with
> Enterprise data. For that kind of thing I endorse the SQLTransformer, JDBI,
> FlowScript approach.
> Regards
> On 25/06/07, Ard Schrijvers <> wrote:
> Hello,
> >This leads to start writing
> > code before
> > > the problem is! fully understood and a reluctance to
> > refactor once it
> > > is. These are the very tendencies that Cocoon allows us to overcome
> > > because it is entirely possible to develop fully fledged
> > applications
> > > without writing any Java code. These 'pure' XML applications are
> > > likely to be much more maintainable, flexible and capable of re-use
> > > than those that skew their centre of gravity back towards Java.
> I can hardly believe everybody seems to take this statement for granted
> (jdo and jcr APIs are ofcourse totally redundant since you can write your
> own fine sql statements, and of course, sql is a brilliant strong
> specification, so when you have it running for oracle, you can switch
> automatically without effort  to mysql, derby, hsqldb, sql server)...anyway,
> if everybody wants to write sql, do many xsl transformations and take the
> burden of maintaining sql statements, be my guest :-)
> Regards Ard
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