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From "Tim Williams" <>
Subject Re: Cocoon Productivity
Date Tue, 22 May 2007 12:12:01 GMT
On 5/22/07, Reinhard Poetz <> wrote:
> Derek Hohls wrote:
> > Reinhard
> >
> > I have been "with" Cocoon since the late '90s and as will continue
> > to use it unless forced otherwise... but is it really fair to say
> > that Cocoon is "easy to use" unless it (one day?) gets better
> > docs.
> Compared with JSF and Struts Cocoon is very different. This means that you have
> to learn to think in Cocoon (btw, the same is true for frameworks like Tapestry
> or Wicket). Without good documentation it is very difficult to learn this way of
> thinking and hence my reasoning that we need better docs.
> Additionally, Cocoon 2.0 and 2.1 are huge frameworks and give you the impression
> that you have to learn everything before you can even start. It is also
> difficult to start your own Cocoon project and integrate it into your
> development process, to configure it for different deployment environments and
> to modularize it. Cocoon 2.2 will solve these problems and IMHO 2.2 will become
> competitive again.
> Furtunatly Cocoon 2.2 isn't far anymore (the release of the first release
> candidate should happen next week) and some of us are working on a relaunch of
> the Cocoon website which will come together with a major overhaul of our
> documentation. Then we will see if our diagnosis concerning the technical
> problems and my assessment of the importance of documentation was correct.

FWIW, "more" documentation won't necessarily help Cocoon I think.
Cocoon suffers, if you can call it that, from just being different as
you say.  That means that if the intent is to bring new people to
Cocoon - which I assume is the purpose of portraying it as easy to use
- then the type of documentation that's necessary is different.
Cocoon docs need to:
o) Bridge the gap between what people currently know/are comfortable
with (e.g. typical MVC - s2/spring mvc).
o) Make the case why the technical approach is better/more elegant [in
all or certain situations].
o) Close the sell with some ultra-simple examples. (e.g. one or more
simple war's that can be dropped on tomcat to demonstrate its

Anyway, just some quick thoughts from a distance...

> > I know this a FAC (frequently occurring complaint) - and
> > if I ever come into an IT fortune such as Mark Shuttleworth's
> > this will be the first area I will invest in!
> You're welcome :-)
> --
> Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
> {Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
>                                         web(log):
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