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From "Derek Hohls" <>
Subject RE: Cocoon Productivity
Date Tue, 29 May 2007 12:31:27 GMT
What you say may be true; but the fact is that those of us who come to

Cocoon without a Java background tend to use it in the way you describe

below.  For me, XSLT and Javascript (flowscript) are a powerful
that lets almost anything be done in a Cocoon framework without the
need to
 "roll our own" generators  or transformers.  Java is too much of a
language to use for casual web development.  Now if it was possible to

write generators or transformers in other languages and "plug" them in
a common API - then all of us could start laying down some really sweet

patterns  of behaviour without a second thought!

>>> "Martijn C. Vos"> 2007/05/29 11:32:45 AM >>

 I think all the really complex stuff should be done in Java
as much as possible. In too many projects I've seen people trying to 
do complex stuff in XSLT, or using flowscript to do all the stuff
that the pipeline can't. The problem is that while flowscript is
very powerful, it doesn't quite fit in the pipeline way of working,
and that makes lots of things more complex than they should be.

>  Of course all the software engineering principles apply as much to
>  Cocoon applications as to any other, but most people find it 
>  difficult
>  to abstract away from the "traditional" frameworks for which they
>  learned their patterns, and apply their knowledge to Cocoon. 
>  And that's
>  no surprise, because Cocoon is so big, you can do so much 
>  with it, and you can do it in so many ways.

And many of those ways are IMO too complex and too inefficient. I
think the basic pipeline is really easy to understand, as are the
basics of how XSLT should be used (i.e: not for logic and
calculations, but only for changing the structure of the XML).
Everything more complex than that should be done in Java, which
immediately makes more use of "traditional" programming experience.


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