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From "Merdes, Matthias" <>
Subject AW: Cocoon Productivity - porting to c2.2 or to another web framework?
Date Wed, 23 May 2007 07:49:41 GMT

i agree with the last post.
both, better documentation and tool support are very much needed.

we are currently in a situation where we have to decide what to do with our cocoon 'legacy'
-port to cocoon 2.2 (we want spring in the service layer anyway)
-port to another web framework altogether (struts, spring mvc/webflow, tapestry, wicket, rife,
what have you)
(staying with the old avalon-based architecture is not an option)

this is obviously a very hard decision involving a lot of risk and effort.
from my point of view the lack of 
-internal documentation (getting started with with c2.2, how to migrate to c2.2 etc)
-third-party technical articles 
-recent books, especially for c2.2 (there is a german one announced for fall...)
is a major issue.
the same holds for eclipse tool support.
there used to be some old plugins for the 2.1.x version but they don't seem to be maintained
any more...

a recent post mentioned the issue of winning new users for cocoon.
however, keeping legacy users from migrating to competing frameworks should be considered
as well.

cocoon is no doubt extremely powerful and flexible.
it would be a pity if this power could only be understood and hence used by a few initiated
people (basically the committers) because of the lack of documentation and general visibility
in the broader java/web community.

the very responsive, informed, and helpful mailing list is a big plus (thanks to everyone
but imho cannot be used as a replacement for proper documentation.
any feedback on this, especially the documentation and tool support issues would be much appreciated.


  |  -----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
  |  Von: ypomonh [] 
  |  Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007 15:54
  |  An:
  |  Betreff: Re: Cocoon Productivity
  |  (note: just started using cocoon 3 months ago)
  |  Reinhard Poetz wrote:
  |  > Without good documentation it is very difficult to learn 
  |  this way of 
  |  > thinking and hence my reasoning that we need better docs.
  |  Although the basic concepts of cocoon seem appealing, the 
  |  learning curve 
  |  was/is very hard for me:
  |  - Books were written before flow and many of the described 
  |  patterns of 
  |  usage may not be advisable anymore.
  |  - Online documentation scarce (only cocoon site+wiki, no 
  |  third-party)
  |  - Even for elementary stuff I have to bother the list (btw thanks 
  |  everybody!).
  |  > Furtunatly Cocoon 2.2 isn't far anymore (the release of 
  |  the first 
  |  > release candidate should happen next week) and some of 
  |  us are working 
  |  > on a relaunch of the Cocoon website which will come 
  |  together with a 
  |  > major overhaul of our documentation. 
  |  IMHO some efforts towards new tooling would be helpful. 
  |  There is an old 
  |  eclipse plugin for sitemap editing somewhere out there.
  |  > Then we will see if our diagnosis concerning the 
  |  technical problems 
  |  > and my assessment of the importance of documentation was correct.
  |  I strongly support your "assesment" :)
  |  Regards,
  |  ypomonh
  |  -----------------------------------------------------------
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Matthias Merdes 
Senior Software Developer

Heidelberg Mobil International GmbH

Phone: +49 6221 533 254
Fax:   +49 6221 533 129



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